-I met her at a dimly lit -room at the Soho House -in Los Angeles.

-Mic check, mic check!

-She was advertised as part -of a panel of musicians -who were chosen -to speak about -!the emboldened voices of women -and the radical change -they initiate through music, -activism and general feminist -badassery.

-This was 2016, -and not a lot of folks were -speaking about this stuff, -especially not women, -brown women and queer women.

-Three of the identities -Kiran Madame Gandhi inhabits, -owns, and turns into a -freakin party on the daily.

-You know how babies -like toddlers, -like they don't know -if it's safe or not -till they put it in their -mouth?

Yes, I feel like that.

-I feel like that about you.

-I'm definitely like that!

-From Vermont Public, -this is Homegoings.

-Im Myra Flynn.

-Today on the show, a -conversation with Madame -Gandhi, drummer, activist, -songwriter and so much more.

-This is -an episode we're calling - "Your superpower is -your only option .

-We're a proud member -of the NPR network.

-Welcome home.

-Hi all!

-How are you tonight?

-You came out.

-Kiran Madame Gandhi -Welcome to homegoings.

-Thank you.

I'm -so happy to be here.

-So I'm so honored to have you -so I met you -a really long time ago.

-I don't know if you remember.

-Tell us.

Tell them the story.

-How would we describe -Soho House to anybody here -who hasn't been there?

Like, -what is it?

-It's an anamoly.

-There's a literal definition -that there's like -the farcical, -humorous definition.

-I mean, it's just a place -to go and work and order food -and work on your laptop -and the remote, -remote work kind of thing.

-But it's definitely it's it's -a whole scene for sure.

-Yeah.

-Because maybe, like, James -Blake will pop up and like, -do an impromptu -set on the keyboard.

-Or maybe you might just go -and see your friend -Sam Sparrow and Madame Gandhi -together on the same panel, -and I forget what -the question was, -but folks were trying to talk -about kind of dating -in the industry, -what that was like, -how like suppressed -and oppressed.

-!Still queer folks were feeling -at the time.

-And, being able to engage -with their queerness -and not hide it -while also making dope -music and charting.

-Sure.

-And I think you got up -and you said something -to the effect of like, -why do you care about -who I am F###ing?

-Oh, I remember -just being like, who is that?

-You're bringing up -that conversation from the -!Soho house all those years ago, -and I think it's so important -for us to be really authentic -about our identities.

-But what's interesting -about specifically politics -in the U.S., -especially as I spend -more time abroad, -is that so often -we are actually reduced to -our identities, excessively.

-And I think there is -a necessity for that -because, of course, -we have to advocate -for marginalized communities, -for voices -that are not heard -and overlooked.

-At the same time.

-It's really fun to exist -in the multi dimensionality -of our personalities, -of our of our likes.

-And I think, you know, -when it comes to queerness, -I've always felt -my queerness is a superpower, -especially navigating -the music industry.

-There's something about -stepping into my queerness -that has allowed me to form -really sincere -relationships with the men, -especially -who I collaborate with -because there's no confusion -around the nature of the -of the work relationship.

-I think a lot of times -romantic, -you know, romantic desires -get in the way.

-And I think for me, -it's actually protected me -by being quite forthright -about my identity.

-It shouldn't be so.

-But that's been -a positive experience for me.

-And then I think exactly that -you know, -I find it really important -!to lean into my queerness, but -also my South Asian heritage, -my identity as a big sister, -my identity as a New Yorker, -!but then also a global citizen -of the world, -someone who loves -both thrifting, -which we'll get into, -but then also luxury fashion.

-I think it's just important -for us -to step into the authentic -multi -dimensionality -of our personalities, -because then -we not only give permission -to each other to do the same, -but we push the understanding -of eachothers -identities forward.

-I mean, right, -that's that's question -number one.

-Hello.

Wow.

-Oh my goodness.

-Oh my God, this is so fun.

-So we're choosing an outfit -for tonight, correct?

-Choosing an outfit -for tonight.

-But I was also thinking -about your song Date Me.

-Yes.

Thank you.

-And I wanted to know -if you -if you've are in the mood -to try anything on -if you're feeling it.

Yeah.

-We could dress each other -to go out on a date.

-I love it.

-This is genius.

-Oh, look, -!this is a William Shakespeare.

-That's cool.

Cool.

-Oh, cool.

-It's a tie -William Shakespear?

-Exactly.

-I just like the juxtaposed - -How would you feel if I -!showed up with this to a date?

-Well, Id feel like, -what a cool person.

-You came with a cuddle suit.

-Like, what are we doing -in the restaurant?

-Like, this.

Is a vibe.

-I think I be, like, look, I'm -trying to tell you -not so -subtly, that I have cats.

-Could you describe -what you do?

Yes.

-Because it's so much.

-I think I understood -from a young age, -to answer your question -more on a profound, -conscious level, rather -than like a resumé level -that my life's work -!and my life's purpose would be -!to use music as an opportunity -to change the world -just a little bit -to to use my lyrics, -for something -that's good for you, -to use my messaging -and my music videos -as an opportunity -to describe the world -I wish we lived in.

-Growing up in New York, -we had this school bus -driver named Harrison, -and in front of -all of the parents, -!he would play classical music.

-But then as soon as the doors -closed off the bus -and we drove away, -he would turn it back -to hot 97, -!which was the hip hop station.

-And so I was like -five and six years old -growing up to NAS -and Lauryn Hill.

-You know, it's Manhattan -in the in the early 90s.

-It was such a vibe.

-!And I understood from an early -age that that songwriting, -that lyrics, -that rap, that hip hop, that, -pop music really can give us -this insight into somebody -else's walk of life.

-So quite simply, I'm -a musician.

I'm an artist.

-But really, my my, -why is that -music has the opportunity -to open us up to receive.

-And that's where -I think the magic can happen.

-You also are like -!a boxer, a yoga teacher, a D.J.

-You are such -a motivational speaker.

-I don't know if you, like -I don't know how you feel -about that title, -but you definitely feel -very motivating -as well as a musician.

-!And so I just wonder, like how -what's like -the Golden thread for you -with all of these things?

-It sounds like it's -your authenticity, -which is great when you can -find it, you know?

-And the world, -I think, does a good job -of trying to get you to bury -some of those things -or feel like -you don't have enough time -for those things, -!or you won't make enough money -doing those things, -especially -when you're a woman of color.

-So what's your secret sauce?

-When I hang with the yogis, I -come back -!to my own sense of meditation, -my own in my own ability -to ground before, -!you know, coming on to a stage -like this, -I learned the importance -of being able to move my body -for half an hour -when I'm traveling.

-I learned the ability to be -a leader, and not only just -through my speaking, -but also through -guiding people -back to their heart self.

-When I hang with the boxers, -I learned discipline.

-I learned hard work.

-Sometimes some abs -come on the top.

-That's always a nice, win.

-!My partner is a former Olympic -selection team boxer, -and so I learned a lot -from her discipline as well.

-She trained me -for my first fight this year.

-I won, so that was -an incredible, experience.

-And I hope to do another one -this fall.

-You know, I'm -a seasoned marathon runner.

-I've run seven marathons, -one of which was the famous -sort of London Marathon, -free bleeding.

-That was a really -powerful moment in my career.

-Can we -say that again?

But slower.

-My "own it -moment was probably -at the London Marathon 2015.

-I decided to take some -Midol for the pain, -bleed freely and just run.

-!In 2015, Myra I ran the London -Marathon and I ran it -free bleeding on my period, -to combat the stigma -that so many of us who bleed -face all around the world.

-And it was absolutely sort -of a radical act of protest -to just say women bleed, -people who who bleed, bleed.

-And we do it -bravely and powerful -while being parents, -while being C.E.O.s, -while being leaders, -while going to work.

-And not only are we expected -to sort of hide it away, -we're not celebrated -in the bravery -and the brilliance -of our of our power.

-For me, being in different -contexts energizes me.

-It doesn't drain me by doing -the same thing every day.

-It also gives me like -a sense of awareness, like, -what are other people -going through?

-What are the sort of common -threads -of what I'm experiencing -in my real life?

-That I can then thoughtfully -write into my music -when I hang with people -who only stay in their lane, -they're so good -at what they do.

-But there is a slight -lack of awareness of the fact -that there's other people -having completely different -experiences than you, -!and they're not going to agree -with you.

-You know, I chose Madame -Gandhi as my artist name -because my last name is -Gandhi, -and I wanted to celebrate -our South Asian heritage.

-It's a strong last name.

-But I also wanted to create -a little separation -from my own personal growth -as Kiran.

-The boxing, -the running, the yoga, -it helps me feel strong.

-It helps me combat -my own self-doubt.

-It helps me stay honest -and authentic on the journey.

-And then when I feel like -I've sort of healed a wound, -I graduated up -to the Madame Gandhi Project -because it's bullet proof -and it's sincere, -and I -can answer questions about it -without being too in the -in the emotional weeds of it.

-So that's also why -!I like to do these other extra -these activities -privately to -!to expand myself as an artist.

-How did you get so aware?

-And I'm going to ask that -but I'm also going to say -fun fact: you also went -to Harvard Business School -because you -just had so much free time?

-Yeah.

-It seems like you kind of eat -life, like with your hands.

-How did you come - -My -Indian grandparents are going -to be so grateful for that.

-Life, life I want this, -I want to try this, -I want to try this.

-And then you try it like, -you know -how babies like toddlers, -like they don't know -if it's safe or not till they -put it in their mouth?

-Yes, I feel like that.

-I feel like that about you!

-Im definitely like that!

-I'm like they -said, it's not safe.

-But let me try it out -for myself.

-I want to have a first hand -experience of it.

-Yeah, I definitely -I think that's exactly right.

-I, I get lit up by stuff -that I not seen before, -and I get lit up by -experiences -that push me and teach me.

-It informs -my music and informs -my ability to communicate -with a myriad -of different types of people, -which only makes the work -more effective.

-It makes life fun, -!interesting, challenging, raw.

-You said -something to the effect of, -you know, for better -or for worse, -my father always taught me -!how to walk in my masculinity.

-And that was something that -was always, protecting me.

-I really want to unpack that, -because that's a really -complicated thing.

-I mean, it's -!so it's definitely so complex.

-I mean, my parents had us -when they were 26.

-They're very young.

-And my dad also went -to Harvard Business School.

-He's just like super -alpha banker, top student, -Baker scholar, Taurus.

-Like just so in his Indian -dad hood and -<laughter> -yeah, I mean, -even when he was encouraging -of my drumming growing up, -I was so skeptical -until I started applying -for colleges.

-And what's interesting -about his misogyny, -raising a female, a daughter -was that I think he was like, -women are going to be treated -badly.

-Women are not going to be -respected.

-Mostly, maybe because I don't -fully respect women.

-So therefore -I'm going to raise you -in your sort of tomboy power.

-And this is -sort of my analysis of it.

-And so what's interesting -!is that I feel very confident.

-I feel very powerful.

-I feel very the way I walk -is because he championed me -from a young age, -was very encouraging -about the different things, -very bringing that alpha dad -spirit, which is like, -why can't you drum for M.I.A.

-and go to Harvard -at the same time?

-Why can't you run a marathon?

-He printed t shirts -also with my face on it -at the London Marathon, -and stood at the -at the finish line, -which meant so much to me.

-So in many ways, my father -and that -healthy masculine energy -really championed me.

-At the same time, -I think when I was younger, -any time -that I had a date to prom, -if I was sort of more -of my feminine outfits, -he would be so uncomfortable.

-Probably to a detriment.

-And so it made -me uncomfortable -in my feminine, -because there was -this kind of gaze of like, -no, no, no, like this.

-I can't have you out in -!the world like this, you know?

-And so it's interesting -because I do -think we live in a world -that's challenging -for beautiful women -to walk in the world -as their beautiful female -self.

-It 100% like -the goddess energy -is too strong -for the world that we live -in, isn't it?

-Amen.

Yeah.

-So so it's interesting -because I think there was a -protective mechanism -that I think to -this day has benefited me.

-I would say -now in this part of my life, -it's really important -for me to like, lean -more into my healthy feminine -and to like, -make sure there's a balance -that's -not just as a result -of my childhood, -but that's like authentic -to my own, expression.

-And and yeah, -we all are -given the sort of gifts -that create these superpowers -on the back end, -even though they are from -perhaps a traumatic place.

-!And when you're lucky, you can -turn them into a superpower.

-That's like our only option.

-I love it.

-!I mean, it's your only option.

-It's otherwise -you will suffer.

-So just choose to work on it, -because -that's my advice for you.

-Yeah.

-Nice nice nice.

-I like these mushroom pants.

-Oh my gosh.

Let me see.

-Look great.

-!Oh my God I want to see those.

-Yeah man you have so many -I have none.

-But I'm selfishly I'm not I'm -I'm like -failing at the assignment.

-I'm just dressing myself.

-I think the idea of dressing -somebody else is terrifying -because I'm like, yeah, -because I'm like, -they know what they need.

-Yeah, all right.

We're going -to dress ourselves.

-Sounds like a plan, -!because I'm also just like the -warm colors.

I don't know.

-Okay.

-So I'm not -!going to dress you for a date, -but I do like the idea -of talking about date me.

-And you just mentioned -your partner.

-Yes.

Go ahead.

-Do you all go on dates?

-Yes.

We're very intentional -about that, actually.

-That's cool.

-I think you were saying -in our last interview -that she's got some kiddos.

-Exactly.

Yep.

-So you have to be -I have one yes, child.

-And it's hard to go on -a date.

-Slash impossible.

-So what do you wear?

Like, -what do you like to do?

-!And then what do you typically -like to wear?

-!That's really a great question -for our two year anniversary, -which was like a month ago.

-Congrats.

Thank you.

-We met at a -like a mocktail bar, -like a sober, like creative, -like nonalcoholic aperitifs -bar in East London.

-And and like, -I'm telling you, -when she walked -in, I think like, the whole -I was like, wow, -you really made an entrance.

-Like, I was like, speechless.

-She was with Beyonce.

-Yeah, yeah.

-She's was like, oh my God.

-It's just so fun.

-It's so fun to like, -fall in love with your person -and witness them -in their greatness.

-But she was wearing like, -this neon -like bra situation -in the neon pants -with like a maroon, -oversized blazer, -which also definitely -had a vintage feel.

-And it was great -because she was giving -like just came off work vibe.

-Like it's this like like I'm -like a stay at home dad -!and you're like the executive.

-Like, that's what it was.

-Give away.

-God, it was very sweet.

-Like, -the neon is just like casual.

-Yes.

Oh, I like this.

-See this?

-Like chartreuse color.

-That's beautiful.

-Such a vibe.

Yeah.

-You should try that -on.

That's going to be fun.

-!I might, and I'm also thinking -for tonight.

-Dope.

So that's fun.

-Shoulder pads!

-So how did you end up -drumming for M.I.A.?

-Like, what's your musical, -like stunt on us?

-A little bit.

-So what you've been doing?

-In my undergrad, -I went to Georgetown -and I was a math major, and -that was my South Asian flex.

-And so when I got to -my internship -at Interscope Records, -which is in LA, -which is home to Kendrick -Lamar and Lady Gaga -and some of the top artists -in the world, -I knew that I wanted -!to get myself a full time job, -but after two years, -I remember -just being a little bit, -jealous of my friends -who were touring -as the drummer -for this artist, -or the sax player -for that artist.

-And, you know, -for those of you who are -who are listening, -I think jealousy is one -of the most useful emotions.

-If you don't, you know, -let it get the better of you.

-Jealousy is one of the most -useful emotions -because it's showing you -authentically -what it is that you want -for your own life.

-And not only should we be -jealous -of somebody else, really, -the opportunity is -thank you for showing me -what's possible.

-You know, -you've lit something up -within me -that I didn't know was -!possible, and now I want to go -and go for it myself.

-So thank you.

-And that -and taking that step further, -even more so, is the reason -why we should be -shining our own light -and pushing -for our highest potential, -because it's showing others -what can be done.

-Well, that's the opportunity.

-We feel bad sometimes, but -!actually it can be motivating.

-And so I remember -telling my boss, you know, -!M.I.A.

really needs a drummer, -Shes my favorite artist, -somebody, you know, -she could use a drummer -who's female, -somebody who's brown -really looks the part.

-And so, I had sent an email -to directly to M.I.A.

-They forwarded it along, -and it was me -drumming to her music.

-And then, -one thing led to the next, -and they were like, -okay, yeah, cool.

-!M.I.A.

loves it.

And, you know, -let's take you on tour.

-So it was very, very special.

-And it was at the same time -!I got into to business school.

-And so the first semester -I looked at the dates -and I was like, -this actually is possible.

-And so I used to be -in the class Monday -through Friday, -and then we'd fly to Poland -!and play Poland on a Saturday, -!and then I'd come back in time -for Monday.

-And yeah, I definitely didn't -tell my dad -until after the fact.

And, -and also like I got the, -the amount of grades, -I got the lowest grades -possible -before they ask you to leave.

-But here's the thing.

-Like, -!what do you call a Harvard MBA -with like a few threes, -a Harvard MBA!

-So I was like, what's what's -the worst that can happen?

-Yeah, yeah, this is -like, I'm here participating -and I'm here learning, -but I'm also traveling -!the world like as a rock star.

-So like this story is better.

-Yeah.

Yeah.

-So I made that conscious, -choice.

-And life requires, yeah.

-Conscious trade offs.

-So this show is called, -Homegoings.

-And a homegoing is, -for me, -It's a great example of what, -what is the brown -and Black experience -sometimes because it is -to both walk daily -while -mourning and celebrating.

-And when I speak to you -and I listen to you speak, -you are such an amazing -example of positivity -and people are learning -so much -from your lyrics -and gleaning so much.

-And as a woman myself, -I'm sitting here, -!I have been for years watching -you.

Not in a creepy way.

-And just admiring that.

-Thank you.

-When do you mourn?

-My sister -!and I joke a lot about our mom -because she's so positive, -but she also has, like, -no capacity -for female emotions.

-Like, -she's just not interested -in us -being sad about anything.

-!Like she finds it unnecessary.

-Like, -what's there to be sad about?

-Your life is good.

-And it's like, mom, -we're grateful we're not - -Nothing is a critique -about your motherhood style -were just -managing our own emotions.

-In terms of what -I actually mourn about, -I feel overwhelmed -in the cultural zeitgeist.

-Of course, privately, usually -it's related to my own sense -of like self-worth and -confidence going up and down.

-Maybe stress, feelings -of overwhelm, managing -too many -things at the same time.

-Before the pandemic, -I was always traveling.

-I was really at the height -of my career.

-I had just toured, on Oprah's -Stadium tour.

-We were opening Oprah's -Stadium Tour.

-!These are the biggest audiences -ever performed for my life.

-Ted, Forbes 30 under 30.

-Just like really on paper, -strong accolades.

-And when everything stopped, -I had to really sit with -myself.

And I was like, wow.

-My confidence is actually -quite low.

-And from a young age, -I've been taught to be -deriving my self-worth -from the outside, -rather -than from the inside out.

-And of course, -that kind of work takes time.

-It takes awareness, -takes bravery.

-But letting go of that stuff -helped me take the first step -to really sit with myself.

-But yeah, last four years, -I feel like I've, I've worked -so actively on my private -healing journey -that it feels nice -to come out of these, -these four years with the sun -shining, even bigger, -you know, you get rewarded -for going through your own -trauma for sure.

-Yes, yes.

-Yes.

Thing that I was wearing -before, except just really -blingier and fishier.

-Its Pisces, -A yellow Pisces, -a golden Pisces.

-Are you kidding?

-I feel like you're, -like, still, -!you know, I'm not going to be.

-This is great.

But.

-You ready?

-Oh, it's fab!

-I feel like a little -Janet moment.

-It's so good.

But, -I mean, look.

-I know you're so.

Cool.

-Yeah, yeah, it's.

-Is it the shoulder action?

-No one's ever picked that up.

-And that's so good.

-Yeah, it looks like -you've been wearing this.

-Yeah, that's like -I was born in this.

-Yeah.

You were.

It's so sick.

-This place is so rad!

-Thank you, -thank you -thank you so much.

-For you.

-All right.

-See you.

Bye.

-Don't -!you have somewhere to take me?

-I said you -never chase me.

-I know -I'm not a maybe -Please don't erase me.

-Why don't you date me?

-You always amaze me -I have room for you daily -I know I can be crazy, -but I can be safety -Why dont you date me?

-I've been holding out for -something so much bigger.

-I've been holding out -for something so much wiser.

-I've been holding out -!for something so much stronger -I didn't know that -I didn't belong here.

-I didn't know -that I didnt -belong here -Ready?

-<applause> -Thank you.

-Make some noise.

-!Everywhere I go, I always have -so much to learn.

-And just the way -you articulate yourself, -!the way you analyze the world.

-It always keeps me -fresh and honest.

-When I get to be exposed -to minds like yours.

-And so what is it -that you are mourning?

-And when you think about -Homegoings, -what what comes to mind?

-Gosh, you know, I, -I think of myself as somebody -who never got -to have a lot of innocence.

-And so I think I mourn -that daily.

-Yeah.

Just playfulness.

-I miss that I'm -not the most playful person -unless you really know me.

-And then I'm straight silly.

-And then that means we love -each other deeply.

Yes.

-Thank you.

Yeah.

-!And I think about a homegoing, -I think about, -you know, where I -I would like -my funeral -to just be straight up funny, -I mean, you know, -and silly and playful.

-So I think about -that a lot.

-Yeah, I.

-I respect that my partner -actually went to, a funeral -maybe a month ago, -and she had left me -a voicemail saying like, -thank Goddess -for Black people, man.

-Like, this is the right way -to send somebody off.

-You know, she she was, -she herself is mixed as well.

-And I think she was just -leading into gratitude -around the sense of -celebration, authentic, -honoring space for emotions -like drumming, beauty, -honoring the fullness -and the natural cycle of life -and also -death is the very thing -that makes us live, isn't it?

-It's the very fact -that there is mortality.

-If if you only had a year -left, we better get working.

-We better get it back -into our purpose, isn't it?

-You know, there's -so much right now, -especially in this country, -that's keeping us distracted.

-Whether it's the phones, -whether it's the advertising, -whether it's -just random entertainment -that we don't actually need.

-Like, what if we were guided, -back to our purpose, -rather than told -that we need to have -a, you know, distraction?

-!I think there's an opportunity -!there for us to just go inward -rather -than living on the outside.

-A word that you use often -when I speak with you -is consciousness.

-I think people use that word -in so many different ways.

-I've heard it in hip hop -conscious rap.

-Some people mean -like it means being aware, -some people -it means like to be -deeply thinking -how do people arrive there -that may get sucked -into the jealousy -and not be able -to get out, or an industry -thinking -that they have to do it -a certain way?

-How do you consciously arrive -where you want to be?

-Do you have any advice for -folks?

Yes, yes, absolutely.

-I think the most important -is for us to spend time -with ourselves.

-And nature is one of the most -effective ways for this, -which you all in Vermont know -!this better than anybody else.

-I always learn that when I -come and hang with Kanika.

-But when we spend -time with nature, nature is -is homeostasis.

-It's just the is-ness.

-The birds are doing -their thing -and the mountains are doing -their thing, -and the tree is growing.

-It's just the honest truth of -what's happening.

-There's no, -attachment and suffering.

-There's just -the is-ness of nature.

-And so when I sit in nature -and after one day, two day, -three days, four days -of turning my phone off, -what happens -is all of the like, -email chatter -starts to finally sssh, -the Instagram chatter -finally, my to do list -is less important.

-And then after day -five, 6 or 7 -of really just spending time -in nature with the phone off, -what then starts to come into -the mind is your own -!homeostasis, your own sense of -why are you being -put on the planet?

-What actually matters to you?

-What kinds of thoughts -are coming to your mind?

-For most people, -sitting in meditation -for hours -and hours is like a form -of cruel -and unusual punishment.

-But once we get past -the monkey mind, -which can be done -with some breathwork, -obviously with yoga -or just listening -to nature as a musician, -that's a big opportunity.

-What I've noticed is only -what really matters to you -is all that's left.

-And when I sit in meditation -for for like what -I've let days go by -and I finally am immersed -in nature and like settled, -I start -to think about my family -and I'm like, -oh gosh, my family.

-I love them so much.

I'm -so grateful.

-I start to think about -my mission, my work, -the only things -that matter to me.

-And so this distills, -distills life for you.

-It makes it more clear -so that then -when we go back -into the matrix world, -there's a sense of a true -north.

-You know what -actually matters to me?

-Because all my decisions -!should be optimizing for that.

-Let's say we get 100 years -on the planet, okay?

-If we like, you know, -take care of ourselves.

-Let's make it count.

-Kiran Madam Gandhi.

-<applause> -!Thanks so much for joining us.

-If you want to continue to -be a part of the homegoings -family, stay in touch -at homegoings.co -!and subscribe to the Homegoings -Podcast wherever you listen.

-Take good care.