Yeah.

This is Vermont Edition.

I'm Mitch Wertlieb.

Today, we're bringing you the first of three primary debates as part of Vermont.

Public coverage of statewide elections ahead of the August 13th primary.

Live today in the Vermont Public studio in downtown Winooski, our Esther Charlestin of Middlebury.

She's a small business owner, co-chair of the Vermont Commission on Women and a former Middlebury Select Board member.

Peter Duval of Underhill is with us.

He's a sailing instructor, substitute teacher and a former Underhill Select Board member.

Welcome, both of you to the program.

It's so nice to have you here.

This is a great opportunity for you to introduce yourselves to voters.

And we're glad that you're here with us today.

Vermont public is approaching our election coverage a little differently than we have in the past.

We've adopted a model called the Citizen's Agenda.

More than 550 Vermonters have weighed in with us on the issues they care most about and what they want candidates to discuss ahead of the election.

Throughout today's debate, you will hear some of those questions.

We'll also spend extra time on issues that have gotten the most comments about the ones we've received.

And if you want to participate, there is still time ahead of our debates next week with the candidates for Lieutenant governor.

Just go to Vermont Public Dorgan's election to share your thoughts.

So here's the format that we'll be using today and throughout the 2024 primary debates.

In the first segment, I will ask questions from our Citizens Agenda and the Vermont public newsroom.

The responses are limited to 60 seconds.

In the second segment, the candidates will have an opportunity to ask each other questions with a brief follow up of question candidates.

The questions of 30 seconds again to ask the question and the responses are limited to 60 seconds.

In the third segment, we will return to our questions from our citizens agenda and from the Vermont public newsroom.

The response is again limited to 30 seconds, and if we have the time, we'll have a lightning round of questions with some very brief answers.

That's about 10 seconds or less.

And we'll conclude our program with one minute closing statements from each candidate.

We'll start with some questions to both of you.

We determine the order of who will go first with the coin flip beforehand.

And Peter Duval, you will answer first.

Again, please limit your answers to 60 seconds that I may ask a follow up question.

So Peter, what is motivating you to run for governor and why do you think you're the most qualified Democratic candidate to unseat Governor Phil Scott?

Well, I'm most qualified because I've been here in Vermont for a good long time and participated in a lot of public policy discussions and had some really good successes on some big projects like the Circ Highway, the Essex Technical Center proposal to relocate that.

We stopped that and I, I just feel like any body with good critical thinking skills and communication skills can, can probably do the job.

And there's a good bureaucracy that the governor takes care of.

And, and the folks who work in government know their their business.

It's not like we have to know everything there is to know about state government in order for it to continue to operate effectively.

Now, according to Vermont campaign finance filings, you did not file campaign finance disclosure forms for the July 1st filing deadline.

And that means you didn't roll over any funds from a previous campaign you've raised or spent less than $500 for the current period.

I'm just wondering how you plan to educate voters about your platform with so little cash on hand?

Yeah, well, first of all, there was a little bit that rolled over.

I just didn't understand that it was it created an exception to the $500 minimum threshold for reporting and all will straighten that out for the August 1st deadline.

But still, my my revenue and expenses were still well below 504, both cycles combined.

And the the thing is, it doesn't cost any money to come talk to you.

And this is perhaps the biggest opportunity we have to talk to a lot of Vermonters.

And it's it doesn't doesn't require a big campaign budget or staff and just need to come and have a chat with.

Well, we're glad you're here, Mr. Charleston.

Same first question to you.

What is motivating you to run for governor and why do you think you're qualified to unseat Governor Phil Scott?

Well, I'm running for governor because I am invested in this amazing state.

I have two beautiful children who inspire me and help me think about the future.

And so they are my inspiration, but also wanting everyone in Vermont to thrive as I think about our housing issues.

Having experienced it myself, I know that it's important that we deal with these issues head on and having somebody at the table who understands them on a personal level as well as a policy level and willing to work with legislators, is why I believe I'm the person.

Now, you know that Governor Phil Scott is one of the most popular governors in the country, according to polling, and he gets a lot of support from Democrats, even though he's a Republican in this state.

What would your message be to Democratic voters to convince them to, you know, leave their support for Governor Scott and support you instead?

I would say this is our time.

It is our time to vote blue.

And as I think about as Kamala Harris is rising and we want to be true Democrats first, I would say there are those who are lukewarm.

So those are the folks that I would talk to first.

But getting my message out there by meeting folks and letting them know who I am and answering their questions is the best way to do it.

You mentioned housing briefly that you would experience some issues.

What did you mean by that?

Yeah, I was a renter who had two of my landlords say, Hey, I'm ready to sell my house.

Understandable with the climate.

And it was hard to find housing again.

So understanding how scarce housing is right now and how much it cost.

And so at the time it was out of reach for me to buy those homes.

So it's important that we make it accessible for all.

Okay.

We're going to get into some housing questions now.

The Vermont Housing Finance Agency projects that Vermont needs at least 30,000 more homes by the year 2030 to meet demand.

Bettina from Grand Isle wrote to us to say that everyone talks about affordability and lack of housing, yet no one seems to offer suggestions in order to achieve that.

Peter Duval What practical measures?

I'm sorry, Esther, let me ask you this question first, since we did talk to you about about housing.

What what measures are you proposing to address Vermont's housing crisis?

Absolutely.

I believe the housing crisis is multifaceted.

And so it's important that we understand, yes, we have to do investments, but we also have to address the regulatory barriers.

And my administration, we would be committing committed to supporting changes in zoning policies and to help remove those barriers.

And that includes exploring options for low to middle income families so that they can rent or purchase homes.

I think about making transition housing accessible and the quality making sure that we have a housing first model for those, making sure people are housed first.

And then let's figure out how to make that happen and keep them housed in a way that's sustainable.

And so not only have folks get housing, but stay in their housing.

Peter, let me turn that question to you.

What about the housing prices?

What are some practical measures that you could propose to address this housing crisis in Vermont?

Well, I think it's important to distinguish and separate that the two two ideas of a long term market situation for for housing and then immediate need for shelter.

Just as Brenda SIEGEL recommended last cycle, the for for the short term, I think you know production of tiny houses and pods would be something that could happen pretty quickly.

And I can make you just give more details elsewhere.

The housing market is supposed to be a market that corrects itself.

And I think the problem here is not just that there's a shortage of housing.

Usually when there's a shortage of something, there's also an excess of something.

And it may be that there's an excess of demand for housing.

And we can just the man deal with the demand by restoring the size of households.

Household size has been shrinking and I think there's an opportunity to get working on the demand side of things and that would be a lot quicker than building new stuff.

Okay, Esther Charlestin, Joey from Burlington asks How are you planning to address the need for housing the homeless, both in the short and the long term?

And I think you were referring to that a little bit in your first answer.

But but this is a big problem for unhoused Vermonters.

Absolutely.

And I'll go back to the transition.

It is I will name it is a big problem.

I was actually in Burlington not too long ago and just seeing people in front of the library and people sleeping on the sidewalks.

So, yes, we're seeing it.

And from my understanding, the numbers have grown, especially since 2020.

And so, yes, it's a problem and it's something with our the size of our state we can fix.

And my approach to it is supporting the transitional housing projects.

So that means expanding the accessibility and quality of the traditional housing projects, making sure they're in alignment with housing first.

So getting people there first and then figuring it out.

Peter, same question for you.

How are you planning to address the need for housing for the homeless population in Vermont, both in the short and the long term?

Well, in the short term, creating places for quality sleep, I think that's an important point, that housing is not on the hierarchy of needs, sleep, shelter.

These are much more basic needs that humans have.

And by addressing that, I think we can do it quickly and effectively, making sure that there are good, private, secure places to sleep available to someone year round, 24 hours a day so that they always have access to their own space.

And I think making that shift in thinking from housing, everybody's got to have an apartment or a house, too.

The most important thing is to be able to sleep effectively and address that first for everyone and we'll have a much better situation.

Matt in Chittenden County through our Citizens Agenda Rights.

How will you address housing costs in Vermont in a way that's different from Governor Scott's approach?

Esther, let me turn that question to you first.

So making sure we have affordable housing for folks who can't afford half a million dollar house.

We have programs like the Champlain.

I'm forgetting the name right now, but we have programs where that assists first time homebuyers and making sure those are readily available that people are getting the message.

So having an education campaign, working with different nonprofits to get the word out and really get folks invested and knowing that they can have a chance to and they don't have to move out of Vermont to find affordable housing.

And Peter Duval, what about what Matt is asking here?

Are citizens citizens agenda question addressing housing costs in a way that's different from what Governor Scott has been doing so far?

Well, the shared equity land trust model works.

So I think continue that for sure as strongly as possible.

But to do something different, we need to look at what we think of as housing, what what are the essential elements of housing?

And are the building codes and expectations in the market, you know, eyes bigger than stomachs.

Because it it does cost a lot of money to build new buildings on green, green sites.

So I think the key thing is to focus on lower cost, not just dealing with affordability, which is a price issue, but the actual cost of construction and development.

So that we have a durable repair or fix for the problem.

Okay, let's talk about affordability here.

Vermont has the second worst retention record for students leaving the state after college graduation.

So a person from Windham County asks via the citizens agenda, What are you going to do to make Vermont more affordable and more attractive for young people?

As to Charleston, what can we do about.

I'm so sorry, Peter Duval, let me ask you that question first.

I'll I'll get the order right.

Just bear with me here.

That question to you first to get young people, you know, just to stay in the state, what can we do?

Well, I'm going to ask about the premise.

I mean, it's just a small state we have in small an area, but even smaller in population size.

I would we wouldn't want to demand that kids stick around.

You know, lower Manhattan for their entire lives.

There's a big world out there.

I think it's fine that our Vermont kids and Vermont college students, from a way, take a turn and go somewhere else.

Check it out, send some remittance back to Vermont, of course, and come back later when you know there's something good for them to do when they're in Vermont and.

Well, what do you think of the incentive programs like the it's it's defunct now, but the worker relocation incentive program that pays people to relocate to Vermont, would that be something you'd be interested in?

Well, that was an awesome gimmick.

And I don't think I don't think it's necessary now to pay people to come to Vermont.

It's maybe there are people who want to leave Vermont and they're having trouble getting out of their homes or getting getting into a home somewhere else.

I think that might be an area to look at.

The the idea of incentives is takes money and sometimes direct regulation is more effective and costs nothing.

Okay, Esther, Charlestin now bringing this question to you about affordability.

Again, sorry for getting out of order there.

Again, second worst retention record for students leaving the state after college graduation.

What would you do to make Vermont more affordable, more attractive for young people?

I've worked in a college setting for over ten years and worked three years at Middlebury College.

So I've seen folks come and go and people who are from here also go.

And so I do know how hard it is for folks to make a life here, especially if you don't have family here.

We're figuring it out.

So what I would do differently, absolute plea increase eligibility for Medicaid.

So making sure that they can have health insurance while they're here.

Housing is a huge one.

Having housing downtown make it walkable for folks would be more attractive to folks.

Making sure child care is just vibrant and that we have enough child care for folks and if they need assistance, that they know what the resources are.

We have great resources already in the state.

But getting the word out is really, really important.

So child care, housing and health care, because all of that is important to make it worthwhile.

And what types of businesses, Esther, would you like to attract to Vermont to keep younger generations coming here?

Well, I would love to encourage the entrepreneurs who are already here and those who can come and start business here and create jobs for others.

So that is a huge one that I would love to support because we already have a lot of entrepreneurs and a lot of programs.

So making sure that they get the support that they need and folks who are in nursing, because right now we get a lot of travel nurses.

So how do we attract and keep those folks teachers?

We need teachers.

So how do we get teachers to come here?

But on the salary, they may not be able to afford the Vermont lifestyle.

All right.

Let me stick with us because, you know, property taxes are such a big thing when it comes to affordability.

They have jumped significantly across the state this year.

William from Windham County is asking us, how can Vermont sustain the tax burden?

And what is your specific plan to tamp down property taxes?

Yes.

I will say the property taxes, especially this year, were not okay.

A lot of folks were struggling to pay them.

They were outraged.

Why?

There was a lot of budgets that school budgets that did not pass.

And the folks who felt the burden were the low to middle income, who were barely holding on, or maybe one emergency away from losing their house or not being able to pay their property taxes or bills.

So one thing I would do is work with the legislature around tax credits for those who can afford it to help them way this time, but also make sure we have a fair taxing system for those who have higher wages that making sure they pay their fair share.

Peter Duval, same question to you.

Your specific plan to tamp down property taxes?

Well, the taxes need to be paid one way or another, so we're going to end up paying some amount of money.

It just depends on how it's spread around.

And most people pay on their income for property taxes related to their residence and curtilage around the house and I think there's an issue with having the cliff for that income sensitivity that people who are very wealthy are paying on the property value and maybe amplify the message about property taxes being high.

So I would look at eliminating that cap on income sensitivity and let it go up into the nether regions of income and then work on doing a fair allocation of taxes overall.

Using what I think farmers knowing once wanted to do an overhaul of all the taxes and see what their effect.

And very powerfully.

Would you have would you have a number for limiting that cap?

I would say just eliminate the cap for resident with the properties of residential properties and allow, you know, a differential property tax rate for nonresidential property like second homes and vacation resorts and stuff like that.

Okay.

We're going to move on now to what really was the biggest topic, the most asked question on our citizens agenda here.

And this is dealing with climate change.

One way the legislature is trying to address this is through the passage of the Climate Superfund Act, which would hold big oil accountable for damage sustained by climate change.

Peter Duval, do you support that legislation?

Why or why not?

I Well, just a couple of days ago, Conservation Law Foundation filed a notice of intent to sue the state to comply with the GWC and that's only dealing with the act itself, which has a fundamental flaw that has flowed.

Flowed through all of the efforts of the state to address climate, and that is that biogenic emissions are not properly accounted for in the state and failing to properly measure the emissions and project into the future.

What what's going to happen in terms of regulation is a huge risk for the state.

It's very, very important that the state get a handle on those emissions and then work immediately to reduce them.

And of course, shutting down McNeil, retiring McNeil Generating Station and Reigate to big biomass plants that are the last in the region.

Okay.

I want to get to I hate to cut you off there, but I will get to a follow up question for you on this, because many communities around the state have flooded some three times in a year now.

Anon from Grand Isle is asking, how do we deal with the fact that our roads are basically built by rivers is the question.

Yeah.

Well, one of the second part of of my my answer was that addressing those woodchip power plants right away, wood wouldn't make a nice cut in greenhouse gas emissions in Vermont.

But to get even further and to meet the deadlines that are next year and in our, you know, U.S., we need to reduce the fleet, the car fleet in Vermont.

Every time we get cars off the road, that's an expense that Vermonters no longer have to pay.

It's these are emissions that do not happen.

And we can reduce the road infrastructure and pruning the road infrastructure as a way to get back to having strong towns in a strong state.

Okay.

And very quickly, one word answer.

Do you support the Climate Superfund Act?

Sure.

I mean, it's there's there's a lot of.

All right.

I'm going to I'm so sorry.

We're tight.

We're out of time.

Well, I was watching the clock.

I totally understand that.

Thank you.

And I appreciate you appreciating the time as their same question to you, the Climate Superfund Act.

This is, again, a an attempt to get big oil companies to pay for whatever damage has been done due to climate change.

Do you support that?

I absolutely do, yes.

It and using that money to really help make sure our state is in a better place because climate change is real.

A few weeks ago, I was in Barrie, I was out canvasing after the flood again and knocking on doors, really asking folks what do they need?

And the need is still great.

So will it happen again?

I suspect so.

And so how do we pay for making sure our state is in a good place to handle it, that communities are okay, that the roads can be rebuilt in a different way and one that is sustainable and can make sure will be good in the future.

Let me ask you this, though, because Governor Phil Scott, he let this become law without his signature.

One of the things he was worried about, he said, was big oil companies with lots of money, lots of high powered lawyers who would kind of drain the state of Vermont when these lawsuits are brought up.

They're not going to take this lying down, obviously.

So would the cost, you know, of of bringing these lawsuits against big oil outweigh the benefits?

I don't think so.

I trust our attorney general to do the job and to have her team to support her.

But I we cannot be afraid.

We can't operate in fear.

And our Vermonters deserve better.

We deserve better.

And what we need is to make sure we're able to afford what's been happening because of climate change.

And the folks who are part of the problem need to pay.

Kristina for Barry City is concerned about energy costs.

Vermont's average electricity price is the 10th highest in the nation, according to the Energy Information Administration.

Esther, how do you propose addressing climate change while keeping affordability top of mind?

Absolutely.

Not too long ago, I had to pay oil and oil doubled since 2020.

And so I am in full support of finding sustainable ways to make sure that people can afford their electricity.

And there are ways out there outside of oil.

So coming up with or supporting projects that allow people to transition from oil to electricity and having making sure that they're able to pay for it.

And it's not as much as oil.

Okay.

That concludes the first segment of this debate.

And when we come back, the candidates will have an opportunity to ask each other questions.

This is the Democratic primary debate for governor on Vermont public.

Stay with us.

This is the Vermont public Democratic primary debate for Governor Mitch Wortley and in the studio in downtown Winooski, joining us today are Ester Charleston of Middlebury, Peter Duval of Underhill.

And the candidates will now have an opportunity to ask each other questions.

The questions should not be longer than 30 seconds, and the responses are limited to 60 seconds.

And a brief follow up question will be allowed if a candidate wants to ask it and so we'll get the first question from Ester Charleston.

Hey, Peter.

In the same week that we celebrated the historic possibility of Kamala Harris being the first black woman president, we also mourned the tragic, tragic and unacceptable death of Sonia massey as the head of the state.

How would you use your voice to show solidarity?

Solidarity in the celebrations and tragedies?

Well, I don't think it's going to be that effective to deal with those tragedies and celebrations in the moment.

The thing to do is to look ahead and think about things that would be effective in addressing structural racism and in dealing with that all of the ways in which people are oppressed in Vermont.

And so that would be my my goal or my focus attention put on the long term and looking forward to a better future.

Esther, do you have any follow up you'd like to ask with that or no?

Okay.

Okay.

Well, I'll keep on the on the theme.

Police traffic stops are widely regarded as dangerous and racially biased to reduce fuel consumption and greenhouse gas emissions, while also reducing road casualties, as recommended in Act 200 inches plans from a while back.

Would you pursue reducing the speed limit on Vermont's interstate highways to 55 miles per hour?

And as an anti-racism effort to reduce police traffic stops, would you use automated speed cameras to enforce that speed limit, as recommended in the Vermont bicycle and pedestrian coalition legislative agenda?

All right.

I would say the speed limit of 55, you said I would be okay with that.

Yeah, I don't see that being an issue.

Reducing police stops with by replacing replacing them with cameras and speed cameras.

I would be open to that with a great plan on how do we pay for it.

Okay.

Well, they kind of pay for themselves with fines, but do you have any follow with that, Peter, that you like to ask?

No, it's or Esther, too.

You Vermonters across the state are grappling with the opioid crisis.

In our last forum, you mentioned that you do not support harm reduction methods such as overdose prevention centers.

How do you plan to address the opioid crisis affecting so many Vermonters?

Well, what I did say was that I don't think that overdose prevention centers would address the root cause of this drug.

It's not just opioids.

It's it's drugs, generally, the supply of these drugs and would make it easier for users to continue to use.

The way to address that is to get the supply back into official channels, back to the point where doctors are prescribing medications for for addiction that are for addicts and having a safer supply that causes the underground market to shrivel up and with a strong interdiction program.

I think we can, you know, close the spigot on new users in Vermont.

You have an opportunity for follow up, Esther, if you'd like.

That is that is all, Peter, to you.

Okay.

Well, let's get back to climate.

I've proposed the immediate retirement of McNeil and Reigate, and there's there's so many reasons to do that and so much money being to be saved with that sort of maneuver and getting on track with the GWC goals.

What would you do on day one to get Vermont back on track for meeting those goals?

Would you repeat the question?

Yeah.

So closing McNeil and Reigate those, there's hundreds of thousands of metric tons of greenhouse gas emissions cut off per year.

Yeah.

Shrinking the automobile fleet.

We're talking about even larger reductions in greenhouse gas emissions.

Also.

Both things are money saving for for Vermonters.

What what would you do on day one?

We have really short term to fill here.

What would you do to get Vermont off the dime and get some reductions in place?

I would really support our public transit to make sure that people know that there's other options, commuter options and investing in making our towns walkable so that folks don't have to travel very far, that sidewalks are paved.

And so that would be my day one project.

Okay.

Thank you, Esther.

Peter, what gives you hope?

Well, what gives me joy is getting out in the world, going to doing hiking, getting out on the water, going for a run.

Those are all joyful experiences for me and the the the way that relates the government is, I think, something that the government should should make it possible for people to have joyful experiences.

At the same time, I think government itself doesn't run on hope.

It runs on duty.

And I want citizens to recognize that it is a duty to make democracy work, to get involved in democracy, and it's a duty of public officials to behave like their fulfilling a duty.

And so hope is its nice sounding word, but I really think that government needs to fulfill its duties rather than work on hoping any follow ups that I do.

We're living in a time that's divisive and so that duty as head of state includes bringing people together.

How do you envision doing that?

Well, the the role of the governor is to make the government function.

And it is important to have fun and and joyful experience.

I would do it by making sure that there are sufficient recreation opportunity for for Vermonters.

And it's we have a naturally available space in Vermont and all of the outdoors and wilderness that Vermont maintains.

And that's, I think, a good way to get people out.

And Peter, we have one time for one last question for you to ask.

Esther, Charlestin.

All right.

This is a goofy question, Vermont governor.

And it's related to the to the bringing people together idea.

Vermont governor sometimes hosts business and government leaders from other countries with Japan.

Vermont has a marketing and trade relations leg up on other states.

Our state's name is prominently displayed on the box of a popular curry sauce bar, mojito curry that is sold in 7-Eleven and other convenience stores all over Japan.

Peter, I have to ask you to speed up this question.

I'm sorry, what road to Vermont flavors are featured in Vermont?

Okay.

And for bonus points, what color is the box?

I hope maple as we have plenty here in our great state.

And I hope green because green represents us.

That would make sense.

So apples and honey and yellow bikes.

Oh, thank you.

A little trivia we've learned today.

That's excellent.

As we have time for one question for you to ask Peter, would you be open to endorsing Kamala Harris?

Yeah.

No, no, no.

I would.

Nobody's asked me that before.

But, yeah, I'm guessing there's no follow up to that one.

Pretty clear answer why we need responsible people in government.

All right.

This concludes the second segment of our program.

And when we come back, the candidates will answer more questions from our citizens agenda and the NEWSROOM.

I'm Mitch Woodley.

And this is the Democratic primary debate for governor on Vermont public.

Stay with us.

Welcome back to the Democratic primary debate for governor of Vermont Public.

And with us today are Ester Charleston of Middlebury and Peter of Underhill.

Well, now return to questions from our citizens agenda and the NEWSROOM.

And thank you so much to everyone who submitted questions.

Just a reminder, candidates to please limit your answers to 30 seconds.

You've both been very good about that so far.

Catherine from Chittenden County asks What can every Vermont politician do to avoid dysfunction, partizan and polarized politics in our beloved state?

How do you foster harmony and bipartisanship?

So, Esther Charlestin, how you answer that question?

Building relationships.

Really, it comes down to building relationships.

I believe it's important in this time to bring all of us together.

And we are better when we know each other, when you know your neighbor.

And so I would invest in building those relationships, making time, having regular meetings.

And this would all politicians can do open communication, mutual respect that so important and finding those Win-Win solutions where we all benefit.

Okay Peter, same question to you.

How do we deal with these times of polarization here in Vermont?

Well, all of those things that Esther mentioned, but I bring a special feature, and that is that I am a fusion candidate.

I am not part of any party machine.

And that allows me to talk to everybody.

We are running as a Democrat.

I am.

But the way the election system is set up in Vermont, it's really necessary, quite necessary to run in a primary.

And this is the primary that is effective for for my campaign.

So I'm a Fusion candidate.

I'll talk to everybody.

Okay.

PEGG in Rutland County asks What do you believe the state's role in addressing the lack of affordable and accessible child care should be?

Peter I think that my proposal to extend the school time is, is the kind of an important thing to do getting universal pre-K while also getting Grade 13 established so that people have a good long time of school support, but also providing at the infant level funding to parents, perhaps as an insurance product, so that at the time, when it's most expensive to provide child care, parents are more involved.

Okay.

And Esther Charlestin, same question to you.

What about this role of child care in the state?

It's a big one and one that I know personally.

I believe everyone deserves access to affordable and a child care center.

We have some areas where you can't find one.

I know for me I had two children in child care at the same time, but they only had one spot.

So I had to drive a half hour to another town to put my son in a different child care center.

And so I believe it's important as a state that we make it affordable, have programs for those who are struggling to be able to have their children in child care because having parents in the workforce is so important and supporting those child care centers.

We're going to move on to concerns about health care now.

Costs are up.

A lot of comments that we received from our audience this year deal with health care in Vermont.

Expect to see double digit to health care premiums as governor.

Mr. Charleston.

How would you help address the rising cost of health care?

The rising cost of health care is so scary and especially.

Earlier we learned that it will raise 25%.

And so people are freaking out.

Understandably so.

I believe it would be important to invest in primary care so that folks are able to go to the doctor when something comes up and not wait until it gets worse.

And then it becomes like an emergency room bill, which can be about like $3,000 or so, making sure that more Vermonters can have Medicaid coverage, because we know a lot of folks in 2023 were let go.

So, okay, yes, I appreciate that.

Peter, same question to you.

How do we control health care costs?

Well, first of all, I want to distinguish between health and medical services.

That the thing that's very costly is the medical services.

It's not costly to have good health.

It's a matter of eating well, getting exercise, getting plenty of sleep.

Those are all things that reduce demand for medical services and the state not being a medical care provider can work on that side of the health.

Question.

That sounds like a messaging thing to me, but what do you do about the fact that Vermont is a very old state?

We've a very old population.

People are going to get sick.

They're going to have problems that you can't fix from eating well, for example, hopefully.

Well, as I said, the state's not a medical care provider and it's not the medical insurance provider that was I was attempted the Shumlin attempt to have a universal insurance program.

Didn't was there was chickening out that happened.

You'd be in favor of that.

Well, if you obviously I mean, you can try again.

But my my thinking is work on the demand side incrementally, work on making sure people are as healthy as they possibly can be.

And that's okay.

That's something that's they can do.

Thank you.

We have to move on.

That was my fault for asking the question.

That was not.

You just want to make that clear.

Judy from Chittenden County writes How do you plan to address the growing illegal drug use that is so openly visible in our cities and towns?

She says, I understand it is a very complex problem and needs a multi-pronged approach.

How will you help with the drug use problem?

Peter Right.

So I mentioned this earlier.

I think the key thing is making sure there's good interdiction and making sure that we work on getting the demand out of the informal or the underground market and make sure that medical supervision is provided for a safer supply.

That sounds like a radical thing, but it's working in other places and we need if we've got desperate situation, we need to try everything.

Esther Charlestin, same question to you.

The drug use problem in Vermont, how would you approach that as governor?

Well, I would approach it making sure that we educate young folks, because I think the marketing is for young people to get into it.

And so making sure that they know the dangers and working with school districts.

I would say having Medicaid cover 90 day treatment centers to make sure that the folks are getting the help that they need.

So, yes, they can stop.

But what about the support after would be important and working with police to make sure it's crack down.

Very briefly, would you be in favor of safe injection sites like like Burlington is going to apparently have in a couple of years with the right plan?

I would be open to it.

Okay.

Something you'd be open to.

Thank you.

Last year, more than 500 refugees were resettled in Vermont.

This year, Vermont was set to take up another 600 refugees, but had to lower their intake.

And this is because of the housing crisis, which we were talking about before.

Do you started from Chittenden is asking how would you address the long term social and economic needs of refugees living in Vermont?

Esther, we'll start with you.

I would say I pause because I have immigrant parents who came to this country and made the best and had five children.

And we are thriving here and we are able to create beautiful families and lives here.

So to to think about the refugees who are coming in and knowing this, the support they get matters and can actually make our state even better and greater because they are interested.

From what I've seen in my travel, they're interested in being active citizens here.

So I would be invested in making sure they get the support that they need.

Okay.

Let's let Peter answer that same question about Vermont's refugee population.

What would you do to support it or, you know, what would your strategy be?

Well, I think they're pretty good systems in place for advocacy and support.

Right now, they just need to be maintained and well funded from a government objective.

I look to the Vermont Constitution, which provided voting rights for all inhabitants, and I would look at making sure that or changing the Constitution if necessary, so that all over the state residents can vote.

And that would be an empowering thing to do and it would be a universal thing to do.

Very briefly, it sounds to me like you're saying you would support immigrants being able to people, not non-citizens being able to vote in local elections.

Yes, I think it is possible statewide elections.

Thank you.

We have time for a brief lightning round before the end of this debate.

So please keep your answers as short as possible, 10 seconds or less.

I know it's a challenge.

And let's start with you, Peter.

Name a Vermonter who inspires you.

Ralph.

Ralph Flanders was a senator who stood up to McCarthyism, and I think that's a great thing.

Mr. Charleston, a Vermonter who inspires you back a ballot?

Yes.

She is a powerhouse and made Vermont her home and is now representing us in a beautiful way.

Okay.

What is the most pressing issue you think Vermont is facing today, Esther?

The housing crisis.

Peter.

It's climate calling.

Okay.

Should Vermont raise the minimum wage to $15 an hour?

It is currently $13.67 per hour.

Peter, I think that's probably too low.

I think we should define it as a livable wage and make sure that the tipped wage is eliminated so that everybody is paid a minimum wage.

Esther.

I believe it should go up.

Yes.

More than the 15.

More than the 15.

Okay.

Question number four, do you think we should increase wages for Vermont lawmakers?

Esther?

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

Yes Yes, it's important.

They're doing great and hard work and it limits who can run and who can participate.

Peter, the governor needs friends in the legislature, of course.

So, yeah.

So, yes, he would do well to say okay, more.

That's great.

Is sports betting a net positive or a negative for Vermonters, Peter?

Negative.

I think we should try to remove the profit incentive from gambling, liquor and smoking and combine those in a a non commercial supply chain.

Okay, Esther, your feelings on sports betting in Vermont?

I'm not hearing a strong response either way on this one.

As long as it's regulated.

Okay.

Question number six, what's one issue in Vermont that does not get enough airtime or an issue that we have talked about yet today that you wish we had?

We'll start with you on that one.

Education.

Education and teachers and what folks need to be successful students and teachers.

Administrators and how we're supposed how we are to support them.

Okay.

And Peter, to you.

Well, Stuart Ledbetter told me to stick with one issue and it's McNeil.

That's the huge cost to go into keeping those biomass power plants alive.

We've got to stop that.

Okay.

We now have time for a closing statement from each candidate and we determined the order via coin flip beforehand.

And Ester Charleston, you will start us off.

Have you ever had that experience that no matter how hard you tried, it wasn't enough, you gave it your all, but then someone put you down like a loved one, a friend or a boss, a landlord, a bank or the government.

Well, you're not alone.

I'm running for governor because I know that we cannot give up.

We have to keep fighting.

No matter the odds, no matter the naysayers who proclaim that you cannot make a difference, they are wrong.

You matter and we all matter.

But too many Vermonters are in despair.

And as I travel the state, I hear that people are working hard, taking care of their children and doing their best.

But no matter what their efforts are, it's hard to keep up with housing.

And too many people fear they are one medical emergency away or a wholesale away from being on the streets.

So I'm running for governor to speak up and make that difference.

Please visit Esther for Vermont dot com to learn more.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Esther and Peter Duval, your closing statement.

Red and blue teams are not getting the job done.

They play a zero sum game of ping pong using the same tired crisis rhetoric.

Both teams have lost track of the ball and both teams are comfortable with the status quo political duopoly.

Vermont needs to break out of that political game to foster new perspectives about the problems and opportunities.

I'm a fusion candidate running for governor so that voters who care about our planet the only habitable planet in the known universe have a choice.

In the voting booth, I'm running to change the language, ideas and framing of political debate.

We all know that only a candidate named Phil is going to win.

So this time, make a protest vote.

And please write in Peter.

Duval for governor on the Republican and progressive ballots.

And check my printed name on the Democratic ballot.

If you really want to make a statement, cross over to the progressive ballot and write in.

Peter Duval for governor.

Thank you, Peter.

For Vermont, north.

This concludes the Democratic primary debate for governor of Vermont public and many thanks to the two candidates for being part of the program today.

Esther Charlestin of Middlebury, Peter Duval of Underhill, thank you both so very much.

And join us Tuesday and Wednesday next week for the Republican and Democratic primary debates for lieutenant governor.

You can submit your questions for that debate by emailing Vermont Edition at Vermont Public Gorg or through our Citizens Agenda Form on Vermont Public Board Election Front Porch Forum is Vermont Public's lead outreach partner for the Citizens Agenda Project.

The Vermont Public Debate Series is produced by Holt Albee, Daniella Fierro, Michaela Lefrak, with production support from Andrea Laurean, David Rice, Kyle Ambusk, Kaylee Mumford.

Joey Palumbo.

Riley Cartwright.

Frank Alwine and Audio Engineering by Peter Engisch.

Today our radio production was directed by Liz Fuller and our video production was directed by Brian Stevenson.

I'm Mitch Wertlieb.

Thank you so much for joining us.