(upbeat music) - Good evening.

Welcome to tonight's presentation on "The Future of Work and Leadership, Women Revolutionizing the Future Of The Workplace."

My name is Amanda Gino Talbot, and I am the director of the Women's Leadership Institute.

As we gather here tonight, I want to begin by thanking the Dean of the College of Social Science for her support of this institute.

Also wanna thank the Women's Leadership Institute executive board for their vision and our campus team for all of their hard work and bringing tonight's events together.

All parties had a hand in making tonight and the events of today come together in a successful way.

Our panelists this evening, in a word, are remarkable.

I might get a little fun here and say, and then in two words, they are change makers.

I'm looking forward to hear how they have broken barriers, how they lead in the fields of STEM, tech and retail business, and in our community spaces.

To introduce our panelists and to get us started this evening, I'm honored to introduce our moderator for tonight, Susi Elkins.

Susi serves as the Chief Community Development Officer at Michigan State University's Federal Credit Union.

Elkins began at MSU FCU in 2022.

Previously she worked at WKAR Public Media in various roles, and most recently serving as the director of broadcasting and the general manager.

She currently oversees the credit union's marketing, community development campus to career and financial education departments.

Elkins also serves as the president for the Evergreen 3C, a credit Union Service organization, and she is the president of the Desk Drawer Fund, a foundation supporting MSU FCU and Oakland University Credit Union and the community surrounding.

Elkins holds a bachelor's degree in telecommunications and a master's degree in educational technology, both from Michigan State University.

Thank you, Susi, for joining us this evening and moderating tonight's discussion.

Please join me in welcoming Susi Elkins.

(audience clapping) - Thank you so much.

- Thank you, Amanda.

It's my pleasure to be here.

I am so excited to be invited here and to have this conversation with all of these women that we're gonna learn so much from.

And so I wanna introduce our panel and then we'll get right into the conversation, okay?

And so first I'm gonna start with Margaret Diamond, president of EW Sparrow Hospital.

Welcome Margaret and Kim Zerrenner, senior Vice President of Human Resources, Pfizer Worldwide Research and Development and Global Product Development.

Welcome Kim and Felicia Wasson, director of Social and Community Impact Inclusive Community Portfolio for Nike.

Welcome.

So thank you.

(audience clapping) Aren't we lucky to have this distinguished panel?

I'm really excited for tonight and for our conversation.

And so I'm gonna start right off with question number one, and I'm gonna set it up a little bit for our panel here.

Kim, I'm gonna start with you.

So here we go with the setup just so that you can be ready.

But this question really is for all of you.

Each of you has expertise in managing, organizing and inspiring people.

And each of you works in a space where science, technology, engineering, and mathematics are used to make products that strengthen the human experience.

You also have worked at high levels of leadership during the pandemic.

So what lessons can you share from working at this unique cross section between HR and STEM related fields in this historical period?

Kim, let's start with you.

- I can see why this question is mine.

(all laughing) So first of all, I'd like to thank you all to be among this distinguished panel and to have this distinguished audience.

I'll be completely honest, I am so looking forward to the after part where you ask the questions.

So I know that's setting myself up, but that's where I really get a lot of energy.

So I'll try and answer these questions as best I can.

This question was probably made for me, right?

And for all of us, especially in our roles, the first words that come to mind when we think about the pandemic is, it was so long ago, yet so short ago, right?

It seems like it was ages yet it was just a couple years.

I will never forget where I was.

I was in my kitchen, my son was at hockey practice and the NBA game got canceled.

He comes in the house and I said, "Don't worry, it'll never happen here.

This won't continue to be like this."

And fan two, a freezer being delivered with trying to get milk.

From a work perspective, it was probably the most tiring years of my life.

I'll be completely honest.

I mean, we were at the center of it, right?

There are a couple companies in particular us, Moderna and J and J, and it was the most collaborative the pharmaceutical companies have ever been in their lives because we did share data.

That's all true, by the way, that's all true.

We shared data, we shared resources, and we shared a vision and mission.

And at the end of the day, when it comes to STEM and leadership, it's about the vision and mission that we all share as a company.

And that our scientists in particular and all of us who support them share together.

Because our scientists came to work at Pfizer, not for what you get in the stock price, even though they like that, it's not for that.

It's because they came to discover drugs that help people live longer and healthier lives.

That's what they all care about.

And when a pandemic hit, it was unbelievable.

The momentum that everyone just wanted to do.

They wanted to share it, they wanted to be together.

They worked the craziest hours, they worked the craziest times, but they did it because they wanted to save the world.

I mean, it was just unbelievable what happened.

Forget where we are today, and whether you believe or not or whatever is happening with the vaccine, in that time, in that moment, the reason I get the privilege to do what I do is because I get to find those scientists, motivate those scientists, and I get to lead from my role as an executive at Pfizer.

That group of people who want to share with everyone around the world, our customers, all of you, all of you, all your relatives, all your friends, that's what we do.

And so the most important things during the pandemic for us, were staying true to that mission and keeping our colleagues safe.

'Cause our colleagues had to go to the labs, most of them, that did the work that they had to do, whether it was the vaccine or oncology or inflammation, anything that we work on, we still had to deliver.

We still had to deliver medicines.

Our manufacturing colleagues in Kalamazoo had to come into the plants to deliver, and we had to keep them safe.

And so from a leadership standpoint, it became very challenging to be able to keep scientists six feet apart, to make sure that everyone had masks when there were no masks to be found, even for us to make sure that they had food delivered to the sites that they could take home to their families because it was important to treat the whole person and not just the person in the lab.

And meanwhile, I had to keep 80,000 plus colleagues on Zoom, we'll call it Zoom, it was not called there that for us, but, we'll, just because that's the vernacular, right?

We had to keep everyone engaged, engaged and yet respect the fact that they had to balance everything that was going on in their lives, whether their loved ones are sick, whether they were sick globally.

So everywhere from our colleagues in Wuhan, China, where we have a plant where obviously this was the epicenter all the way throughout, and that was a challenging time.

We found one thing to be common.

And that was, if you stuck to your mission to deliver medicines to patients, everyone galvanized around that.

And that's what we try to do.

And so from that perspective, you forget about where you got your degree, where you got this, where you got that, which we recruit for all the time, we're kind of like that, but you know where we get this.

And you all became people that wanted to help.

And that mission we try to engender even today, not as easy as it was then.

It was actually easier then.

But that kind of, for the crossroads.

- I think that's a really important lesson that in times of chaos and when you're not quite sure exactly what to do, go back to that mission, go back to your core values, and that generally will give you the direction with which to move forward.

And I'm wondering if that resonates with you, Felicia, and if there, what lessons you learned in the midst of all of the crossover between technology and that human connection that you're trying to maintain in a time like that?

- Absolutely, it was a challenging time for our industry as well.

At Nike, we believe if you have a body, you're an athlete, and we also believe that you can use the power of sport to change the world.

And how can you do that when everyone's at home in front of a computer?

Our customers expect the newest, the latest models in clothing and athletic wear and shoes.

And we had to continue to innovate.

Nike is an innovation center.

If it's nothing else, we continue to innovate, but we had to speed up the innovation because customers still expected that.

So you may notice that if at any chance you order a product from Nike, it shows up at your doorstep pretty quickly.

It has a label on it, and it comes from Memphis, Tennessee, where our distribution center is.

But we had to innovate, continue to iterate and innovate to make sure that we could still keep our mission of allowing the athlete, which is every one of you, regardless if you play an organized sport or not, we believe all of you are an athlete.

And you had to continue to use the power of sport to change the world in a moment when the world was changing dramatically.

The pandemic, the death and murder of George Floyd on national television in 2020, our company continued to innovate.

I will share with you that a portfolio, a piece of the work that I work on at Nike, I'm in the social and community impact space.

There's a portfolio of giving that we created that summer that specifically works with uplifting Black community and attempting to level the playing field and eliminate some of the barriers that systematic racism created.

And we had to use innovation to do that.

We used technology to do that because we didn't have the opportunity to meet in person, to talk with organizations about how can we work together to do that.

So in that moment, we relied on our core values of using sport to change the world and innovated in a way that responded to our situation of not being able to meet in person, but also to the country's need to heal from the pandemic and the summer of 2020, that challenged us as a nation.

So I was honored to be a part of that.

I'm in the social and community impact space of their philanthropy, but I had to talk to my colleagues in the business who design sneakers, who design products that speak to a specific community and offer our experience on how to make that product better.

But they also spoke to us about, when you're talking to community members, mention the opportunities for advances in technology.

And so, we've learned to work more cross-functionally, and I've learned a great deal about technology being in the space.

So happy to be with an organization that continues to encourage innovation.

- Fantastic, that's really inspiring and I'm taken by the stories of going back to that mission to move forward.

And Margaret, I'm wondering what examples or thoughts you have and observations that you made during that time as well.

- COVID really didn't affect healthcare.

(panel laughing) So imagine Amanda said Margaret, they like people like stories.

So if you have a story, so imagine I'll give you my story.

I was at the time the president CEO of McLaren Oakland Hospital in Pontiac.

Lots of disparities, lots of trauma, it's a trauma hospital, lots of transfers.

So our staff really didn't know what to expect.

We had plenty of PPE, we had plenty of masks.

And so we were going about our business and imagine a 52 year old, a female who came in diabetic, had some respiratory issues, staff were kind of, we said, we're gonna keep you safe, wear your masks, follow the precautions, you'll all be safe.

Well, people didn't take that seriously in the beginning, right?

So this person stayed in our hospital five days.

Well, ominously McLaren Oakland was the first death of the COVID patient in Oakland County.

And nine of our staff contracted COVID from this patient.

And their families contracted COVID from them because they weren't donning and doffing because that's not what we were trained to do.

They weren't wearing their mask and isolating.

So imagine the effects of that on a small hospital and the staff, right?

Because really they're looking at a leader to say, you need to make sure that our most basic needs are taken care of, and that is keep us safe and keep us healthy.

So right off the bat, we failed as a leadership team.

So again, lots of communication, lots of actually advocacy in terms of change agent.

We worked with Oakland County, they had COVID money after about six months, and we were able to buy, because if you're a nurse and you're in a patient's room and the patient is dying, there's no way to have that.

You can't touch a phone.

ICU doesn't have phones, you can't get that family to be with you in the final moments.

So there was actually some technology called Vocera, where Oakland County gave us a grant to have our nurses wear.

And you could hear beyond the PPE, because they were actually wearing an ICU, not only their gowns, but plastic, like plastic bags over because there was such paranoia and fear.

But again, those things in terms of HR, HR differences were what technology, what disruptive technology can we bring at this time of crisis to make our workforce feel safe?

So that was kind of the HR piece.

What can we get to them to make them feel like we're at least getting to the basic needs on the Maslow scale?

And then we would practice donning and doffing in the hospital, and then give them extra scrubs to say, take this off in the garage.

And if you feel you have symptoms, we set up beds for nurses just to say, if you wanna stay away from your family, stay here for the night or off shift.

Now imagine, not seeing your family, but there needed to be a sense of, I wanna protect my family.

But on the positive side, in terms of COVID disruptive technology really excelled.

And what does that mean?

Well, now we have technology that a lot of hospitals are using that was born in COVID.

We have remote nursing where in ICU you have several TVs and a nurse is remotely monitoring your patients.

Because by the way, if you think that the nursing crisis is over, it's not, there will never be more nurses.

So we've gotta decide what we use for disruptive technology to take care of those patients in lieu of human bodies.

So there was a couple companies that got disruptive technology and we were able to lease and buy monitors in the rooms, now that company would call a nurse on their cell phone to say, blah, blah, blah, need to get in here, but at least we could expand the care that we had.

So in terms of HR disruptions, how do we protect our workforce?

We never had to go to the extent that we did during COVID and now beyond, because COVID had its ups and downs.

We went back to it in 2021.

And then in terms of AI and technology, we're gonna see disruptive technology in healthcare like we've never seen before.

Because not only can't we recruit nurses, nursing applications are down 40 to 50% in schools.

We can't get medical assistance, we can't get lab assistance.

So how do we do this?

Where do we need the workforce?

And how quickly can we develop technology to replace humans to do that technology?

- So I'm hearing themes of, even with the disruptive technology and being able to, you need to be, you need to be flexible to take advantage of those things, but always come back to that mission.

And so you're deploying technology in new ways, thinking differently about things, and then also paying attention to what's happening socially so that you know, how how does my mission apply in today's world and what are the tools that we need in order to do it?

And I think that that's, those are really important messages for our students who are thinking about what job will I even have in 10 or 20 years?

What do I need to be prepared for?

And we might not know that now, but the advice that you're giving is that's okay if you don't know, as long as you're tuned in to what your value system is, what you're learning and what you're interested in changing about the world, and then applying the tools of the day to do that.

So I think those are all really good points that you're making.

And I kind of wanna go back.

Speaking of our students, they're really engaged, particularly our WLI students.

And back in September, 2021, WLI began this investigation into the future of work and leadership.

And at that fall panel, one of our student participants submitted the following question that I wanna pose to you.

And here's the question.

The upcoming generation is one of the most diverse and accepting generations.

There is more acceptance for the LGBTQ plus community, more support for the Black Lives Movement, Black Lives Matter movement, more women breaking the glass ceiling, and more people willing to educate themselves and change for the better.

So what do you think the workforce, workforce specifically for women will look like in 15 plus years?

What changes are you hoping for?

And how can everyone participating in this event make these changes possible?

So Felicia, I'm gonna ask you the question of what changes are you hoping for in the work that you do?

What are you, what change are you looking to make?

You touched on it a little bit with your last answer, but can you tell us a little bit more about your hope for the future?

- I have several hopes for the future.

I've had an opportunity to connect with many of the students in the Women's Leadership Institute.

And I'm inspired by your tenacity, by your inquisitiveness and your desire to make the world a better place.

So what I'm expecting to see is all of you at tables where decisions are being made, and you'll bring your Michigan State education with you.

And when you're in a room where a decision is being made, you'll think about other women who may be LGBTQIA, who may be Black, who may be Latina, who may be a person with disability and say, I'm at this table for their interest.

They may not be in this room, they may not know this discussion is even going on, but I have an eye for inclusivity and equity and recognize that if I don't speak up in this moment, they may not ever sit at this table as well.

So there are a lot of companies or organization that espouse DEI and they'll show that externally.

But how does that look internally?

What that looks like is women like us at the table and when a conversation is occurring, we're reminding them of that mission that maybe we'll go outside and when we say externally, we're committed to DE and I.

But you have the opportunity right here and right now at this table to hire someone or make a decision or promote someone that espouses that commitment to DE and I.

So my hope for the future and what I plan to see, what I know I will see, especially if these women from Michigan State are at the table, is that those commitments will continue to be brought forward, we will hold people accountable.

Women will be able to show up as their authentic audacious self without fear of retribution.

I had a young high school woman in Portland where I live now, she was about 16 years old.

She has beautiful full afro, her hair was beautiful and big.

She had glasses, she had a little kind of different style.

And she said, I'm afraid to be myself.

She said, "Today I have my hair out because I knew I would be in a place where I would be received comfortably, but I'm torn.

Do I cut my hair, do I straighten my hair?

Do I change my clothes?"

And I hurt for her because she has to think about shrinking from who she is naturally to fit into a place.

And I believe we as women, just in a woman's journey, has to figure out who we are and where we fit in.

And to be able to walk in our confidence.

I know all of us could probably say the women that we are now, we weren't that when you were 20, but my hope for you is that you will be that now, so that when you show up in that boardroom with confidence, you'll be able to accomplish the goal and bring someone else with you.

That's my goal.

- Well said, Kim.

- Yeah, I mean, it's interesting when you said, "Where were you when you?"

When were sitting in that audience, right?

- Right.

- There's something that's gonna be true for all of you though.

You're not gonna change that much.

You have a voice.

My relatives are sitting in the audience tonight, and they know that's true from me.

I've always had a voice, right?

At times I felt comfortable to use it and at times I didn't.

But there's something inherent in all of us.

I've done HR for way too many decades.

Okay, let's age myself up here.

People are people, who you are is who you are.

- Yeah.

- Right?

- You have to be true to your core, but you also have to flex on both sides to grow with your strengths and help some of those weaknesses.

The development needs, whatever we say in the 360, help those shrink but never lose who you are.

And if you can retain that and find the things that drive you from a values perspective and let that shine and build relationships in the workforce to bring women along, to bring others along, to also be open to others helping you, right?

My greatest role model is yes, a woman who ran HR for Fidelity, she brought me along.

She was amazing, she was a mom.

She taught me the ropes of having a child and the workplace.

But the other people that brought me along were men, Men as Allies.

We have a program that's called Men as Allies.

So I think about that.

The men that challenged me to come outta my comfort zone, that really took me under their wing in those decades because when I was sitting in that chair, there weren't a lot of women in my role, even in HR, okay?

Even in HR, I started my roles at Pepsi.

I can tell you who the head of HR was, you can look it up.

It was a man, it was very good, very good, very dear friend.

So I can't say anything.

But at the same time, you have to use all of your allies, use your voice, use your allies.

I hope you are all sitting on this stage.

When you're in our positions.

But use it and figure out what position is right for you.

By the way, this position isn't all great, by the way, all the time.

All I do is say no all day, okay?

No, no, no and no.

And then roll my eyes a lot, no, to very important people, I say no.

But you have to have your own voice to be able to do that, right?

- Yeah.

- And you have to be able to know where that voice fits in, because everybody is valuable wherever it is.

And then think about that, what you want from your career, and then help bring others along, is what I'd say.

- I agree.

- Margaret, I want to hear from you on this answer, but I'm gonna set you up just a little bit, okay?

- I've been set up a lot of times, join the list.

So I wanna continue this conversation, but I want the audience to know that in 2018, the World Economic Forum stated that the global gender gap would take on average 108 years to close.

And so with you, we have a local example of this with Margaret Diamond, one of tonight's distinguished panelists sitting right here.

You were recently named the president of EW Sparrow Hospital, making you the first woman to lead the hospital in its 127 year history.

(audience clapping) So we're so honored to have you here with us, and that's such an incredible accomplishment.

But why does it take so long?

Why are they telling us it takes this long and why has it taken this long?

And how do we increase the speed with which women are able to lead and give it an opportunity like this?

Or at least recognized for how hard they're pushing and earning it?

- That's a simple answer, isn't it?

(panel laughing) Well, let me go back a minute because let me just tell you, and I was reflecting on my own experience within the last 15 years.

I was with a new male boss who took me to lunch on my first week.

We were at a country club and it was very quiet.

He said, "Yes, I wanted to go somewhere where it wasn't loud so I could say the following to you, this will be the last time that we have lunch together, because I don't want anyone to speak that we're getting too close."

And you have to understand now, I was a CEO it wasn't junior, I was a CEO of an organization.

And this was my boss.

"And by the way, you will not be invited to my house or to social activities because you're the only female.

The males will be invited to cards and they will be invited, but you won't.

So I just wanna set a stage, it's nothing personal, okay?"

So what would you say if you were me?

- I didn't wanna come anyway.

- Yeah, I didn't wanna go.

- Nothing personal.

I'm like, I can play cards.

I know how to play poker.

Well, anyway, so think about that, right?

Now, if I weren't tenacious and have a little peace and vinegar, I would've said, oh my gosh, this is crazy and maybe I should start looking for another job.

No, I said I'm gonna beat this right?

And I'm gonna be better than the boys, I'm sorry.

But that was the culture of the organization back then, right?

So in getting ready for this, I thought, well, I've seen this and it's a very depressing statistics.

So there's gotta be a more enlightening statistics.

So I'm gonna just tell you that Corn Ferry in 2023, so just this year you can look it up.

They basically said, "In order to plan for the present, you've gotta plan for the future."

And that's why the students are here, you are our future.

So they basically said, plan 10 years out for your organization to develop and hold talent.

First of all, professional development people take a job in an organization because they want to feel a sense of belonging.

They want to know that that organization cares about them.

That they're not just a number or they're dispensable or yep, we've got somebody that can fill your shoes.

And they also want bosses or leaders that they can look up to.

But two things that are trustworthy and authentic.

There was a study done during the pandemic that 30% of healthcare workers did not believe their CEO on what their CEO was trying to do to keep them safe.

And those nurses and over 35% of the general workforce in healthcare did not believe their CEO.

So think about, you've got a third of the population working in healthcare that really doesn't believe what leadership is saying.

So when you think of the nurse exodus from acute care, was that because they were scared of COVID or really because they didn't feel that they were supported by leadership or a combination, right?

And so then also what Korn Ferry also said was move up the millennials.

We were talking a little bit about this before we came on stage.

The Gen Xers are already planning on retiring early, right?

In their '50s.

And the baby boomers are already into that retirement mode.

What kept people in the jobs, if you look at generations before our parents, our grandparents was not defined benefits, but pension, you couldn't move because that pension was there, right?

So it kept you with the gold watch and that type of thing.

Now that the whole structure of retirement and payment has changed, millennials, they don't, they wanna know a sense of belonging.

They want to know, and I'm gonna read a little bit about this, create a workplace that excites them.

And also sustainability.

And sustainability of planet environment, social sustainability and governmental responsibility.

So that is the new equation.

And that's what people are, you say, oh, millennials are gonna jump jobs.

Well, they're jumping jobs to find that fit that makes them feel like they're worthwhile.

- Absolutely, are you seeing that Kim, in your HR world and are candidates coming and questioning you as as much and all of your companies are candidates coming to the table and interviewing you more so than that used to happen in the past?

- A hundred, a 100%.

So, I think it's interesting 'cause when we all talk, you said it best, every corporation will have, they're very similar.

- Yes.

- You have enterprise diversity goals, you have divisional diversity goals, you have local diversity goals, okay?

Everybody has 'em.

We have colleague resource groups, we have Black affinity group, we have the, everybody has that.

The thing you have to ask the company that you're looking at it, to me it's, you can read that online.

You can read the sustainability, the commitment to the environment.

I'm not saying we don't do, I'm saying we all do it.

We all do it.

You have to decide from a relationship standpoint because where diversity changes is at the individual relationship.

And if you have the sustainable relationships and you walk in and you understand that that relationship, that one-on-one, that piece of it is there and that connection, that's where we make the difference.

'Cause all of this will work, it has worked, but it took a hundred years to get someone in a position that is female.

The last time that happened was a pandemic, a hundred years ago for the Spanish flu.

So put that into context.

There has been two pandemics pretty much, right?

Hundred years apart.

- On record.

- On record, on record, a hundred years apart.

It can't take another a hundred years for the diversity pieces to make the move in companies.

And the only way to do that is at the individual level to really gain that traction, to gain the momentum and to judge a company on whether we're authentic or not.

You're gonna know, when you walk into the interview, you're gonna know, I know that's really kind of silly, but it's, is it a fit or isn't it a fit?

Is the mission right for you?

Is the mission not right for you, right?

I've been at a couple different companies, I jumped companies.

I think this generation will jump companies.

I think you should, the experiences you get my grandfather worked at Ford for 45 years, started on the assembly line into a supervisor, right?

Right at the starting in the glass plant in dear board, right?

I have his plaque in my office when I had an office.

We don't have offices anymore just for the records.

I believe that that's actually another whole topic.

But anyway, when I had 'em, it was there because it motivated me both from his resilience, but also then what do I wanna be?

He struggled to get there.

What will I do to get there?

Where will I go?

And I judge that by the people I met at companies, not by all the stuff it says, but the mission of the company and what you meet when you walk in the door.

- Can I just add to that?

I think you don't have to wait for the interview.

You can go on and look at the board and see the diversity of the board and then look at the senior staff and look at the diversity there because it's stunning to me what companies say and what they actually do.

- Right?

- That's true.

- There are healthcare systems in this state that do not have a female on their corporate board, they do not have a corporate CNO in their corporation of many hospitals.

So what does that tell you about a culture versus, and I have to say, when I looked on Sparrow, even though the Sparrow hospital in Lansing had never had a female CEO, there are critical access smaller hospitals within the Spiro system.

And five years ago they were all male.

Currently there are four females and one male.

So it told me that that system is moving forward in terms to your point of looking at inclusion, looking at what I would call meaningful recruitment of different types of people and roles.

- I wanna continue this part of the conversation and come to you next, Felicia, I just wanna highlight an article in Women in the Workforce in 2022 was titled "The Great Breakup."

And it's similar to what we're talking about here.

The phenomenon of women leaving companies to find better opportunities was highlighted.

And the article said, quote, "It's increasingly important to women leaders that they work for companies that prioritize flexibility, employee wellbeing and diversity, equity and inclusion and belonging."

And so I'm curious how you all think, how do you think this great breakup will affect the future of the workplace?

And what should young leaders look for when they're out in the job market?

So you've already given some really good advice, but Felicia, I'm curious, the previous question was about how do we speed this up?

And so I'm wondering if you can talk a little bit about, does this emphasis here and is this particularly a female thing of, do you find that women in particular, this article is saying it's more of that women are voting with their feet, choosing the companies that they want.

Is that empowerment, is this a good thing?

Will this speed up our opportunities or what are your thoughts on that?

- That's an interesting question.

I do believe, I mean, we're centering in around the conversation about women and the things that we do in our practices.

I think we as women, tend to be more loyal.

We're afraid to leave.

That means I don't want them to think that I'm not grateful or I didn't stay long enough or I need to stay longer.

You can leave.

No one cares about your career more than you.

I was at a company for seven years, it was a great run.

I enjoyed it.

And I had to make a decision about whether I was going to stay or whether I was going to leave.

I was given the option, a choice to stay or go.

I didn't have a sponsor.

My mentor was gone and I quoted Kenny Rogers, "You gotta know when to hold them and no when to fold them."

And I left a job that people thought I would never ever leave.

Oh my God, you're never gonna leave.

I did and didn't have another job, but I chose myself and I was unemployed for nine days.

So- (Panel laughing) There is a saying, if you stay ready you don't have to get ready.

But I want women to, I mean, I guess I'm using it as kind of an example just in life, if it doesn't serve you, let it go.

And there's nothing wrong with the great breakup.

If it's not serving you, do something that does, look yourself in the mirror and say, "I want, I need, I deserve better and I'm going to get it."

Men kind of have that option, and no one will disparage them for saying, I gave it a good run and I might just leave and start my own business.

We have women have to have that same, that same encouragement and same incentive to put yourself at the center in personal relationships.

Sometimes we kiss a lot of frogs, right?

And it's okay, so move on to the next boyfriend, move on.

But that experience that you've gone through has shown you what you want and what you don't want.

I had a conversation with a young lady, I think I see her in the office.

I see her in the audience right now.

I had a conversation with her earlier today and she says, "I can't say what I want for my career, I don't know."

And the first thing I said to her was, "That's okay.

You don't have to have it all figured out.

You don't have to see every stair in the staircase to know that you can do it."

Remember that, right?

But knowing what you don't want also is telling you what you do.

And so figure that out.

It's not a destination, it's a journey.

And it's okay to say, I choose me.

If that means leaving a company before you get your gold watch or the plaque, another one will come by.

It's like a bus.

You miss that one, another one will come around.

If you're prepared, you will get the position that you desire and deserve regardless of how many times you quit your old boyfriend.

- I think that's excellent advice.

And I hear you saying come from a place of strength if you're, I've had this experience myself, of trying to make a decision and not being sure and then deciding, I think I'll be happier long term if I come from a place of strength.

- Yes.

- Even if I don't know, I want to come from a place of strength and not fear.

- Yes.

- Because we often don't know what the right answer is.

We often don't know which path to take.

And so action comes from deciding for yourself, I'm gonna come from a place of strength as opposed to shrink into my fear where, and then there's no action.

So- - Absolutely.

- That resonates with me really well.

- Yeah and I think the road is never over to your point.

The road is not over.

When I had my son, I had a, he was premature and he spent time in the NICU and when it was time to come home, I faced a decision.

What do I do?

Do I put him in daycare, what do I do?

He had challenges when you're in the NICU, right?

You would never know by the six foot one hockey player I have now, but back then he was barely able to have clothes.

I took a year off, I quit my job.

You know what everyone told me?

- You're crazy.

- You're crazy.

You're never gonna get back on the track.

I had a really good career at that point, right?

I graduated from the top program in the country in what was known as LIR, I know Peter, if you're in the, I can't see what the, like I know it's HR we've evolved.

But you know, I was really lucky.

I had a great career and I decided to take a year off and I didn't know what the future was gonna be, right?

But it does work out and you can have a family and have a career.

And I'm very lucky 'cause I, listen, I have a great role.

I'm very thankful for the role.

I'm thankful for every luck that got me here and every mentor that pulled me along, 'cause that's what it was.

But I'll tell you, you can do it.

You have to make choices.

And there're hard choices along the way, trust me.

It's taking a year off and then finding a new job when the market wasn't great and the economy wasn't good, but it works out.

- It always works out.

- It always does work out.

If you stay true to who you are and you don't sacrifice the big moments or the big times because you can balance, you can definitely balance.

You won't have it all.

You will never have it all.

And you will not go to PTA meetings, which is not a big deal.

(audience laughing) I've done it once.

- I'm gonna read it, I'll second that one.

- Never again.

I was never more intimidated than in that room.

So you can though you can, you will not be the one bringing everything to school.

And you will not be doing that.

You will be the one that volunteers quickly to bring in napkins.

But you will be able to not miss the big times.

You won't miss the big moments.

And you need to be in a company that supports you and have that voice we talked about to support yourself because you will be able to, again, you won't have it all.

It's not, it's just impossible is we can all attest to, right?

But you can have it and you just have to be true to yourself.

- What do you think Margaret, about the great breakup, what?

- Well, I've broken up.

(audience laughing) I've broken up.

People have said you've just recently, they really did want me to have a mental status exam for leaving Naples, Florida to come back to Michigan.

But it was, I again, when you're not looking, sometimes things happen to your life.

- Yeah.

- And I got a call and I thought, oh my gosh, I need to explore this.

And the more I explored, the more I thought, this is a once in a lifetime.

It doesn't matter about that 80 degrees, the sand, the sun, the palm trees.

Oh, okay, I'll stop.

But you have to follow what you're, what is inside rather than what other people want you to do.

That makes sense.

And taking risks sometimes is scary, but it's the best thing that you can do.

- Yes, that's true.

- Because whether you're there a year or 10 years and you love that job, it gives you skills to go to the next level.

- Yeah, that's right.

- So and again, going back to your point, in her book "Leaning In" Cheryl Sandberg talked about sometimes adversity in your personal life helps you make change in your career.

She talks about when she was pregnant and she was working for Google at the time and she felt like a walrus and was just, and she said to the CEO, why don't you have parking spots for pregnant women?

And the next week there were parking spots for pregnant women right by the door.

So you're not gonna conquer and make monumental changes overnight.

But it's again, the little things.

Once we get the little things, then the bigger things will come.

- That's good.

- I wanna ask you a little bit more about that and about having that voice.

So you touched on that a bit and advocating for oneself.

And so I wanna talk a little bit about equality and how our students and young leaders can think about advocating for themselves.

And so we know that equality provides everyone the same boost and an equal level.

And while equity recognizes we all come from different positionalities and being equal isn't necessarily the answer, the boost looks a little bit different for all.

How do we advocate for ourselves and look for appropriate support?

So I think that comes in the form of negotiating potentially, in thinking about you touched on it's particularly a female thing sometimes to want to show, be grateful and to be loyal but that equates to real lost earnings potential for the rest of your career.

There are real consequences to putting others before you when it comes to making decisions about your career.

And so I wondered if you could talk a little bit about that and what some of those consequences could be and then also what we can do about it and how to bring, how to gain the confidence to come to the table and ask for what we deserve.

- That's a great question.

One of the things that I'm fond of saying is people always celebrate the first.

Like we're here today celebrating Dr. Diamond and her being the first woman at Sparrow.

What I know she will say is that she's not gonna be the last.

So I'm always applauding the first excited, happy.

Let's start talking about the second and the third.

And Dr. Diamond will ensure that others will come behind her.

I think about, and I talked about this with the students earlier today, what's my why?

I think about, it's not my seat at Nike or Coca-Cola, wherever I worked was not for me, it's for someone else.

It's for a student in this room, it's for my nieces, it's for my sons, it's for someone else.

And so I think the best advocate you can be while you're advocating for yourself is to remind yourself that it's not about you.

So that yes, you got there and yes, you arrived and yes, you negotiated this fat contract.

I hope you did get a lot of money.

(audience laughing) I hope you got all the money So that when the next college of social science graduate with an emphasis in healthcare sits at the table down the street on Michigan Avenue, says, I know what's possible because Dr. Diamond did it.

And so that's always my mission.

And recognizing that I love the question about equality is different than equity.

You know, we don't all come from the same vantage point.

You've all seen that the project where they have all the students stand in a line on a flakka field.

How many of you have a trust fund?

How many of you whose parents went to college?

How many of you grew up with both of your parents in the household?

And you look back and you're like assuming that everybody has started from the same vantage point and they don't.

And they don't.

And so when you have the opportunity to be equal and not disleveling the playing field, recognizing that the playing field has different sets of rocks in it and divots and holes for different people.

So it is my hope as women and as allies of women, that you'll be at the table and think about the other person that's coming behind you and that you can, while you're advocating for yourself, advocate for those you don't even know who are watching you, who need you and who are counting on you to make the right decision for your own negotiations, so that makes theirs easier.

- I think that's a really good point.

And sometimes it's hard to muster it for ourselves.

- Yes.

- But because we care about others and we're empathetic and we wanna support others inherently that might be a great motivator.

And I think that's really great advice.

What are your thoughts on that?

- Do we not have the arbitration and negotiation here anymore?

Like where is that class?

- I didn't take that.

- Where is that class?

So you asked about negotiation, I'm just gonna hit the nail on the head.

Women do not negotiate their salaries like men do, okay?

The facts are true.

The experience is true.

There are very few that do, but there's two pieces to it, they're hesitant.

But there's also a need to be able to come with the facts.

There's a lot of, there is a lot of stuff that happens around when women get jobs, they don't feel like they can come to the table like men do.

That is still a reality, it's shocking to me.

It's actually shocking to me.

And actually the global salary datas will show you that women's salaries are becoming on par with men's in certain roles.

Not all, but in certain roles, right?

And that women are becoming the breadwinners more than the men in households is even getting further in the gap, right?

But what I would tell you is that when you come to the table to negotiate, just have your facts and it's back to that believe in yourself and believe in your voice that you talk about, right?

And you've said so eloquently, you have to come to the table with what it is you want.

Not extravagantly out of the ballpark.

By the way, we actually know when that happens 'cause we do run the salary surveys, right?

But come to the table and advocate for yourself.

Don't be afraid to do that.

And I say that truly because we see it a lot, right?

And then we see the data coming out and that's where the pay gap still kind of still has to inch up.

But if you have the facts, the salary date is all out there.

It never used to be, right?

By the way, in most states, you don't even have to give your current salary when you go into a job offer.

- That's right, that's right.

- So don't, unless you really make a lot of money and nothing, you can just negotiate.

Always give your stock options though, because give my typical, I can give you all that salary insight later.

But you gotta come with a position of strength and know your numbers.

And if you know the numbers, I think that you come to the table and you can get there and we can start closing that pay gap.

But you gotta have the confidence to come first and I think and advocate for yourself.

And we'll get, and I'm hopeful we get there, we do gender neutral offers.

Now I will actually blank out resumes have before compensation sees them so they can't see the person's name.

And not that we have that happen, but there is, you don't want any unconscious bias in there.

I also have in, we also in certain roles do not, you'll be surprised to hear this in certain roles, not all, don't require degrees.

And we have the equivalent of years of experience versus the degrees.

Those that is not for the people who made the medicines.

So do not lose confidence in that.

The scientists do still have to have the degrees.

So, but in certain roles and what you do is you get a little bit more even playing field, right?

One of the strongest women in our organization actually runs a medicinal chemistry organization, right?

She has a master's without a PhD, ironically, a very strong master's and incredible amount of experience, that was unheard of before.

She is a very strong role model for a lot of women.

A very dear friend and you just didn't hear that.

But when you start leveling playing fields and you start thinking about it from your own vantage point, when you negotiate, right?

Level your playing field, playing field and get those facts, and then that'll help you as you move through your career.

- So I imagine you have some thoughts on this.

Did you get all the money?

(panel laughs) - Sorry, my bad.

- Well, it's interesting.

And I won't say when this happened in my career, but I had an HR leader when I was negotiating a salary, say I've never had a woman challenge my offer before.

And so I said, well, I hope there are many more after me.

And I know that, right?

So and I will say hypothetically, most recently there was an offer and I, because you can go on 990s, right?

- Yep.

- And you can see what people in each organization make.

And so you should all be detectives when you're getting ready either for an entry level job or even what I call that broken rung where the data shows that for every a hundred men going from a line job into the first management job, there are only 87 white women or Caucasian women that go to the hundred men and actually 82 women of color that get that chance.

So when you get that chance, you need to advocate because that is will be your start.

And when you look at data, you've got to be equitable.

So, yes, did I do my homework?

I absolutely did, I always do.

And again, you're in HR and you'll probably, depending on the gender of the HR person, they'll go and complain like, oh, she's really wanting too much or whatever.

But you can't think in terms of gender, you can't think in terms of, gee, I don't have enough to offer or that type of thing.

No, you're your own best advocate.

And you can tell them the strengths of why you need, I mean why you deserve that salary.

And if you come with facts, if you can say, I've looked at regional and Midwest data and this is the median and this is the 75th percentile, how can they argue with facts that you can present them?

- I think that's great advice.

And I hope you're all listening and taking notes on these things, even if you don't need this information right now, these are really good tidbits of advice and I didn't know how to research those kinds of things.

And it's almost embarrassing to think how long I was in my career or I understood sort of how to position.

And when you start to do that research, you'll be motivated because you'll find out, and almost think, why didn't someone tell me?

Well then no one's gonna come and say, actually now with the skillset that you have in all the years and experience that you've had with us, you now actually would, if you were to leave here and move, get another position, you may hire in at a much higher level.

And so no one's looking out for us and telling us that.

And we need to do the work to do that is what I'm hearing you all say.

- Can I just add to that too?

- Yeah.

- And usually it is only when you leave that you see how valuable you are to that institution.

So most recently when I left Naples, I had a role that encompassed a lot, right?

They hired three people into my one role.

So I'm like, I should have asked for a raise.

(panel laughing) - I think that's key.

I'm gonna move to my next question.

And one of our WLI executive board members has wisely said, "Do not forsake the right now for what's next.

It's called the present for a reason."

So that said, our topic tonight has been the future of work and leadership.

And as we look forward to a new landscape, and we've talked about that new landscape a bit today, constantly evolving technology, global competition, virtual workspaces, how do our young leaders who are here tonight stay in the present and learn from what's happening around them and what they're participating in right now in the present, but prepare themselves for that future workplace.

Do you have advice on staying grounded?

Because I think sometimes we're giving good advice here, but we then are always thinking about what's next?

What's next?

What's for the future and what do I need to be advocating for?

But all the while maybe missing out on an opportunity to dig deeper into the present and build a skillset that would be even more marketable if we could stay in the present.

There's a lot of pressure on young people today.

- A lot.

- A lot, and so we're saying, no one's looking out for you gotta look out for yourself.

You have to pay attention to, and be flexible and advocate and, it's a lot.

And so are there spaces in the present that our young leaders can find a little bit of grounding in order to help them then think about the future.

Do you have advice on that?

- Yeah, I'm looking at Amanda, 'cause you wrote these questions, didn't you?

- Yes.

- That's my quote.

- Yep.

- You stole it.

- Oh, well you are the, just some random WLI.

- I'm looking at Amanda, like you, plagiarism.

- It's all yours.

It's all yours, we'll take a break.

You go for it.

Well, you're the expert then.

- I'm not the expert.

- Speak to your quote.

- But it's a quote I told myself, I had a job, I left Michigan State.

I started a job in the Michigan legislature.

I was telling the students earlier today, I went to Breslin Center.

My parents gave me a big party.

We graduated and they're like, "Okay, go get a job."

I had no idea what I wanted to do.

I didn't know where I was going.

I got a job to pay my rent.

Underneath the building we were at today, I was at America Bank, a bank teller.

And a friend of mine who was a Michigan State grad, asked me if I could type.

And I said, "Sure, I can type, but I need a job."

My salary was, I'm not afraid to say it.

It was $22,000, I made $700 every two weeks.

My grandmother said, "What are you gonna do with all that money?"

(audience laughing) So I got the job and there were some days that were really, really hard and one of my closest friends is sitting in the audience.

She's heard the story a million times.

It was really hard and some days I wanted to quit.

I would go in the bathroom and every day I would pray, God, if you relieve me from this job, I promise I will remain faithful, I swear to you, that was my prayer.

And guess what happened?

I got promoted, once.

I went to work and he called me and he says, "Hey, you see that lady over there?

You're gonna start doing her job tomorrow."

I didn't know what it was.

I didn't know how to do it.

But I went from $22,000 to 40 in one day.

Huge jump at 28 years old, right?

And so then I had another boss who is one of my dearest, dearest friends to this day.

He and I were just having a rough spot on that same job.

And I was like, ugh, I can't get away from him.

I want to quit, I wanna quit.

But then I reminded myself of the prayer, "God, if you relieve me from this situation, I promise I will remain faithful."

He left, I was the chief of staff.

So I was praying to get out of that job.

All the way away was being made for me to lead the office.

So what does that mean?

Stop forsaking the present.

Because you think something is better on the other side.

It's greener on the other side.

The reason why you're not being released from where you are and why you're still in the present is because there's something you're supposed to learn.

There's the skill you're supposed to gain.

There's some people you're supposed to meet.

There's something that's supposed to happen.

And so that has really been, I will never forget that experience.

I've been in those situations again.

But I'm always mindful of I'm supposed to be here for a reason.

And Nelson Vandal says, "In life I never lose.

Either I win or I learn."

And so I have taken that as a mantra in my life.

I've been in some situations that I will have liked to crawl out of.

But I know that everything I went through in the present at that time was to prepare me to be here on April 20th, 2023 at 8:00 PM with all of you.

So don't ever forsake where you are right now.

It's called the present, 'cause it is a gift.

- And what a gift to have you right here to explain this.

- And let me just say afterwards, ask Felicia what stall in the ladies' room to pray in?

- The ninth floor of the Farnum building downtown Lansing.

Yeah.

- But I think key to that is that's really important is though you may have been praying to move out of that position, I guarantee you were giving a hundred percent.

- I was, yes.

- During that position.

- Yes.

- And so that's advice that I have given, that I have learned also is a lot of times you might be in a position that you desperately don't want to be in and thinking, I'm better than this.

I can do something and I need to be finding that better thing.

- Yes.

- But if you do the job at 110% to core to your values, people will notice and say, why are you doing that?

You should be doing this next big thing.

- Yes.

- And if instead you're in that position and you're treating it like, this is just a spit stop here.

Like, I gotta find something else.

No one is going to help you get to that something else.

They're going to say, oh, well you can barely handle this.

And so I guess this is where you need to be.

Or even at a lesser position.

And that's sometimes hard to learn.

You have to maybe go through that yourself.

But I think that's a wonderful example of even in those positions, you're learning something.

And so it deserves the respect of treating that position.

- Yes.

- At 110% if you're going to take the time to do it.

So that's really great advice, do you have thoughts on that?

- I immediately jumped to the job that I failed at.

It's funny 'cause you were praying to get out of a job.

I was like, oh my god, this is gonna be done in my career.

So it's funny, it all comes together 'cause it immediately I thought, resilience, you have to have resilience.

Look at my fist in like, I'm thinking about the job.

I was at Eli Lilly competitor, a very big competitor right now.

But I was at Eli Lilly and I had my dream job.

I had my dream job.

I was the HR lead for the US business.

I had this great leadership team I was supporting, I was that business partner in the business, I loved it, right?

I mean, listen, GE was my first job outta school.

I learned to be a business HR person.

Everything was about the business, all the HR stuff.

And I loved my job.

Like I loved it, right?

I did not wanna move.

And I had a mentor.

He was a brilliant person.

And he said, "You need to become the chief of staff."

You loved it.

I was like, "No, that's not me."

I'm like, chief of staff, no chief of staff and strategy, strategy, corporate strategy.

I'm like, no, I love my job.

I love my job, I am good at my job.

I'm getting paid, I like my job.

And I said no.

And they came back to me a week later and said, "You really need to think about this job.

You really need to think about it.

It's really good for your career."

You're a, at that time you're a hypo, I don't know much today, but you're a hypo, right?

- I remember that too.

- You're a high potential.

You really need to take this job.

It's gonna take you out of HR into corporate strategy.

And I said no, again, luckily this mentor was the head of HR.

And someone else came to me and said, "You really can't say no to that.

I dunno what you're thinking, but you can't say no."

And I went in this job and I did not go all in.

Well I tried to go all in the strategy part I loved, by the way, the strategy part I loved, right?

All that chief of staff stuff, I did not like that.

And I was not good at it.

And I did not do well, I didn't do well.

But I look back on that job and I've told this story to a lot of people along the way because that job, I did a board of directors assessment.

I had to assess the board of directors, I had to learn corporate strategy and how to do that.

By the way, I was an HR person.

I was way outta my comfort zone.

I had to do a balance scorecard when balance scorecards were, by the way, brand new, right?

I had to do all the metrics on the balance scorecard.

I had to assess the other pharma companies on that scorecard using metrics.

My cousin sitting out there was one of like a world renowned math teacher.

So he should have done the math.

I should not have, but I did.

I sit and go though I would not be where I am today if I didn't have that job.

It was probab.

It was only 18 months and I would never, I loved pieces of it, but I struggled so much.

But I saw behind the curtain.

What you think happens in companies, by the way, once you see behind that curtain, what really happens?

Oh my god, you can't go back.

And you see behind there and you see the inner workings and you see how strategy comes together and you see the company in a very different perspective.

I wouldn't be where I am because I didn't know the business aspects.

I didn't know the triggers to pull.

I didn't know when I'm sitting at the table and have to understand the budget and the compressions and everything that's going on in the market and how we do things.

I didn't know how to do that.

And it was clear 'cause I didn't do great in the job.

But you have to have resilience to, by the way, take risks in your career.

Listen to the mentors who you're thinking they are nuts.

Take a chance.

Don't be afraid of failure because you can come back from it.

- Yes.

- But lead into stuff that you're not comfortable with.

Because when you do, that's how you're gonna end up with the resilience to get where you are throughout your career.

Because without that job, I swear I would not be sitting here and I would not have my job that I cherish today, right?

And I wouldn't have had any of the jobs along the way 'cause I wouldn't have been able to talk to the people that I talk to today and say the nos and the yeses that I say without knowing what that is.

And so that's the one thing I'd say is resilience and just both sides of the equation of those experiences.

- Just really quickly playing off the word resilience, if you haven't read the book, "Grit," you need to read it because it really talks about the five traits that failure is a necessary part of life.

It shouldn't be an end point where you're so paralyzed that you can't go forward.

And there are also YouTube videos on 10 famous failures.

Like Thomas Edison, his teacher thought he was slow and told his parents he would never amount to anything.

So again, failure can be success.

But one thing that I've noticed about females in working in a largely female in healthcare, largely female profession, is they will wait to, I'm not, I don't think I'm ready for that job.

People are saying, yes you are right.

No, no, no, no, I'm not gonna apply right now.

There was a study that just came out that for a job posted men would apply for the job.

And empirically they were qualified around 60% for the job qualifications.

Conversely, women applying for the same job were 140% qualified or overqualified, right?

So we inherently don't like to get ourselves out there, but that's the only way.

- That's right.

- That you're gonna, now not in the job that you said no to, but again, looking at how you operate resilience inside.

So you feel confident that you can do that.

And if you don't get the job, guess what there now, just like a bus, there's gonna be another one coming.

- Yeah, I think that's really key and I'm really grateful to all of you for all the advice that you've given and I wanna transition the conversation for our last question around that feedback.

So you're giving advice to the students that are here today.

And I'm sure they'll have lots of questions for you at the reception following this panel.

But can you give some last bits of advice on how to accept that feedback?

So you talked to Kim about coming back from something, you took a chance, you gained a lot from it, you also learned things about yourself and you kind of did a zig and a zag to figure out like, where do I actually fit?

And by the way, I'm gonna take all of these learnings and apply them in my new space.

That's a great example I think, of being able to take feedback and not have it crush you and feel like, oh, I shouldn't have done that.

I shouldn't have taken that chance.

Instead, you were able to take the feedback of this part great, this part maybe not such a great fit.

And that's okay.

And so, I'm assuming you had gotten some feedback around that.

So what advice do you have on how to receive feedback?

We've talked about being a leader and helping out others, but what about when we get feedback positive or negative?

What advice do you have on what we can do with that?

I'll start with you first.

- Oh, what happens when you sit next to the moderator?

I had a manager that told me that feedback is a gift, real time on the spot feedback and when I was younger in my career, I took it personal, it hurt, maybe they didn't like me or you just took it personal.

I'm like, it's not personal.

They don't know me personally, so it can't be personal.

And a manager or a colleague or someone giving you feedback to say, you know what, you did a great job, but in the future it may be helpful if you did this.

You gotta accept that as a gift because someone who does not care about your career wouldn't tell you that.

And they'll let you walk into the meeting again and do the same thing and talk behind your back.

So if your manager gives you feedback right away, immediately on the spot, so it's applicable, don't take it as a criticism.

Use it for your growth.

And you should be quick to give feedback too.

If your manager does something and say, you know what, I appreciate the way you did this, but I want you to know I felt this way or the reason why I did that so be, it takes some growth to get there, but maturity has taught me that when you're comfortable in your own skin and you can receive the feedback and give it, you're both better off.

There's not any unexpected or assumptions or presumptions.

You've gotten it all out on the table.

So when you have the opportunity, receive the feedback, but also give it, that's what I would say about feedback.

That has been a struggle for me 'cause I'm, I function on relationships and personalities and I would take it personal and it's like, wait a minute, that doesn't mean I'm not a great employee, it just means that I could do this better.

And so thank you for that.

- Yeah, looking at it as a sign of respect.

- Yes, absolutely.

- And I have thought about that and when it's hard sometimes to give feedback that you hope someone will take and learn to grow from it because it doesn't feel great.

But what, when you're struggling with that, thinking about it as it's a respect thing.

I respect you enough and I want you to be successful.

I care about you, therefore I wanna give you that feedback.

- Yeah.

- And I hope you accept it in that manner.

- If you don't mind, I'd like to share a little story at one of the companies I used to work for, I had a manager that I don't think cared for me personally.

I had some colleagues say to me, well she doesn't like, how do I, and I'm not gonna say, don't think, she didn't like me because there were other colleagues that come to me and say, "You know she doesn't like you."

She was a pistol.

She was hard to work for and she was tough on me.

And I made a complete, I fumbled.

I fumbled in a big situation in a big way and I was embarrassed.

I had just gotten to, got arrived at the company and I fumbled and I saw her in the elevator.

So I'm getting, I was on the elevator and she got on with another person and I'm thinking, I'm gonna be the strong person.

I'm gonna show her that I'm resilient and it's gonna be better.

And I said to her, "I'm really sorry about dropping the ball there.

It won't happen again."

I started to try to explain myself out of it and she looked at me and she said, "No worries."

And I just kept going, "No worries."

By the time I got to my office on the 13th floor, my direct manager said, "Get in here."

And I was like, what?

And I said, "I thought I did the right thing."

He said, "Absolutely not."

She thinks that you don't have any discretion because you don't know who the other person was in the elevator.

You just kept going about your mistake and you didn't even look to see who the other person was.

You didn't care.

You were so worried about trying to massage it over with her that you didn't exercise any discretion.

For years I was like, she just didn't like me and it was personal.

She was right, she was absolutely right.

And I had someone write on my evaluation before, "Felicia needs to work on self-awareness."

Me?

(audience laughs) I'm totally self-aware, but I connected the dots between that interaction in the elevator and for me to be a better person.

So, although she was not my favorite person, I did think she had it out for me.

She did give me good advice.

But guess what?

She retired and I got promoted, but that's another story.

(audience laughs) - And she's waiting in the lobby doing.

- So I can handle her now.

I can handle her now.

- Oh sorry, that was supposed to be a surprise.

(panel laughing) - Sorry.

- It's all right.

- So any thoughts on feedback either of you?

- I mean I think you put it really well.

Was kind of funny 'cause the only thing I was thinking was the best advice someone actually I heard one time and actually read was through Harvard and it said it's gonna really feed right into this.

Don't jump to solutions.

- Right?

- So it's the best thing and manage up, right?

Stop, right?

- Manage up.

- Everyone gets feedback.

First of all, you automatically go to the negative.

You never read the positive things about yourself.

- Yes.

- I do it all the time, but it's stunning, right?

And we get feedback every six months.

So talk about inoculation, we do it every six months.

We get performance feedback.

- We do too.

- Right?

- So every six months and when we first implemented it, most of my scientists did not open it, okay?

Literally, you can tell how many people open it.

They didn't open it.

They were like, I don't wanna know.

Now they open it and then they became whatever.

But they jumped to solutions.

You can see when someone gets feedback because if one of the leaders gets feedback that they need to be more encouraging to their colleagues, every other email, you did a great job.

Oh my God.

Or the best people are when they say, I love this because I got this feedback, I'd like to tell you.

(panel laughing) Really, that's not authentic, so don't jump to solutions.

- I love that.

- If you don't jump, you're not gonna have the emotional response, right?

It's very hard to do though.

I would've jumped.

So you just really have to not jump.

And that's, Harvard did all that and it kind of came down right to that critical piece.

- Love it.

Margaret, any thoughts?

- I got nothing after Felicia's.

- I know, it's a true story too.

- Yeah, give me some feedback about my answer.

- I think you've all given phenomenal answers and I think you've given us a lot to think about and I think you're gonna get a lot of questions.

And I- - Please.

- That's why I wanna make sure we have enough time for the students to have some access to all of you to be able to ask their questions directly.

And it's just so kind of you to come and be vulnerable and share your stories about what it's been like moving through your careers and sharing with our students so that they can learn from you.

And we're just really, really grateful and proud to have you here at MSU.

And so thank you all for coming and I hope you will come to the reception and bring your questions and make sure you're networking and utilizing this great forum that WLI has provided for all of you.

And thanks so much for letting me be a part of it.

- Thank you, Susi.

- Thank you ladies.

- Thank you.

- Thank you very much.

(audience clapping) (upbeat music)