I'm Mikaela LeFrak today on Vermont Edition, a cross-border conversation in partnership with Radio Noon, a call in program from the CBC in Quebec.

And this hour we're going to be taking calls from both Canadians and Americans.

It's your chance to talk to your neighbors on the other side of the border.

Michaela, I'm thinking now that we've explained a bit about what we're doing, maybe we should talk a bit about why we are doing it.

So Michaela, why did you want to do this show?

Well, first, Sean, I just want to say I'm a little jealous.

You guys have a text line.

We have to get one of those for Vermont Edition.

But.

Yeah.

So just to start on a personal note for me, Sean, one of my favorite things about living here in Vermont is our proximity to Quebec.

I mean, I know so many people with family on both sides of the border.

I listen to Quebec loud music on the radio on my commute.

I love visiting Montreal and the Eastern Townships, and it just feels like a really special and unique relationship.

And in the last few months, it has admittedly been been both difficult and fascinating as a journalist to to get to watch how that relationship has changed.

I mean, there's been the trade wars and President Trump's statements about how Canada should be the 51st state.

And I want to acknowledge here that a third of Vermonters voted for President Trump in the last election, and two thirds did not.

Take of that what you will.

guess all this is to say that I've always seen Vermont Edition as this kind of rare place where people can say how they're really feeling, and also take some time to listen to what other people think.

And I'm just really glad, Sean, that we can bring both of our radio communities together today.

So, yeah.

How about you?

What were your initial thoughts on this show?

We thought, great idea.

And I think we think about Vermont the way that you were sort of describing you feeling about Quebec neighbors and more than neighbors, really good friends and just these, these tight bonds.

And so lately, though, that's been really different.

And we've been talking so much kind of among ourselves as québecers as Canadians about how we are feeling about the states over the last few months.

Right.

And this being able to talk with you in the States, it just feels like it makes so much sense.

Yeah.

So, or speaking of some of the difficult conversations I think we want to try to have today.

In the past couple of months, President Trump has repeatedly called Canada the 51st state and also referred to Justin Trudeau as a governor.

How did those statements from the American president affect folks there?

It was nuts.

I mean, the reaction to it has just been kind of, you know, what you would expect, I guess, when you're a huge neighbor to the South is suddenly talking about, hey, why don't we kind of take that place over?

So, you know, scared, offended, angry, confused.

You know, tell me what what have you heard over the last few months?

want to read a couple of emails, actually, that we got ahead of today's show.

And we've gotten so many when we put out the call with this question, what do you want to say to your neighbors across the border?

Abby in Woodstock writes, please tell all Canadians that we love them and are terribly embarrassed by our president.

And would they consider adopting Vermont?

Megan in Burlington also wanted to apologize for President Trump's behavior.

They write, I completely understand why Québecers refused to come to the States right now, but I own a small business and have already noticed a lowered income.

Canadians absence has been and will be greatly felt.

So yeah, I think those are the the two big concerns that we hear again and again.

Some embarrassment, though I know that's not shared by all our listeners.

As well as concern about the this economic frame that we're seeing.

And we're going to go to a call here in Quebec, in Knowlton, in the townships, to be specific.

We're going to talk with Michael.

Hi, Michael.

Hey.

Hi, Sean.

I have a small business where I can be of.

My sales are in the US.

I have an intense love for Vermont, especially as it's such an incredibly wonderful place.

I was there a few weeks ago for the, to the big rally and, was it in Montpelier where Josh Reed actually had a beautiful speech?

It's heart wrenching.

And it's, I think the kind of thing where people are going to have to react in a grassroots way and kind of rise above all the, you know, the bull that's happening out of Washington.

And I think that's what's happening.

I just think that's Americans generally know that Canadians love them.

I mean, I also for me, it's very, very personal because most of my family now lives in the States.

And, you know, some of them are kind of supportive of these.

I have some others.

And that's really painful because you have to kind of sit down and explain to them what exactly happened, because there's a lot of delusions out there of, you know, of, of what is the effects of all this, these tariffs.

So I think we have to just reach out to our friends.

So I do, Airbnb a lot.

And I had a huge number of American visitors last summer, and I just got a message from one of them who was thinking about moving to Canada.

And so, yeah, it's it's biting the bullet.

I put my house up for sale, and I move it and I tell my American friends this, and they say, I.

Nobody's going to move like, you know, no, that's not going to happen.

It's just talk.

Well, it's it's not talk.

It's, people who who are my customers.

I feel so sorry for us.

They're so incredibly sympathetic.

So I think it's.

I'm sorry to interrupt.

I just I just want to note to the caller here that what you're saying so echoes so much of what we have been hearing here in Vermont.

It sounds like you have these really close ties, familial ties and business ties to the United States.

And we also got this email that, again, echoes exactly what you're saying.

It's from Jess and Stark Sparrow, who runs a small local business that, they founded in Montreal and then moved back to Stark's.

Bro brought the business with them.

Their eldest daughter, who's also their employee, was at the border last week filing paperwork to import some products, which they've been doing for the past decade, but ended up turning around because she was hit with a tariff bill of about $1,000.

And their typical payment is about 60 to $75.

It just writes it's not an option for us or our distributors to absorb this cost.

And just goes on to say that this has just been a devastating personal blow, as they've had deep emotional ties to Quebec.

So yeah, Sean, so many echoes here, And, Michael, I think you've got a caller, right?

Yes.

We have a number of folks, who are calling in.

And thanks so much to everybody who is is voice their thoughts for this conversation, this important conversation we've been having today.

We have Howard Dean on the line, former Governor Howard Dean as well as a former presidential candidate.

Governor Dean, thank you so much for calling in.

What are your thoughts?

Thanks.

Well, first of all, I agree with, what was just what Michael just said, that you can't blame the Canadians for not wanting to come.

I do hope that people will take us their perspective, particularly the three northern New England states, New Hampshire, Vermont.

About a quarter of all the people here descended from French Canadians.

Just look at the phone book.

Although the spelling's a little different.

Verbose.

Is the RPO here?

Yeah.

You up there?

So the ties are very close.

We have a president who is not in his right mind, and that's pretty obvious.

But I understand, and this is never we're never going to invade Canada.

I have enough problems on his mind, wrecking the American economy before we ever get around to doing anything like that.

Canada.

And I think, frankly, he'd be removed from office.

But I can understand why people are mad.

But I just want people, especially people north of the border with us, the three of us, and really all of New England.

We have long standing relationships.

When I was governor, we spent a lot of time with the premiers of the Atlantic, provinces in Quebec.

We got most of our electricity from Hydro Quebec.

So we are, we are bound together, whether we like it or not.

I agree with Michael that I don't blame people for lashing out, but we are not the same as the rest of America.

We are the opposition.

We voted two thirds against Trump, and most of the other ones say he didn't win a New England state.

So I, you know, we're still relatives.

The boss has made some stupid mistakes and said some dumb things.

But, we've got to let this we're making sure this relationship continues because we have a hell of a lot more in common with Quebec and the Atlantic provinces than we do with Texas or Florida.

Former Governor Howard Dean, thank you so much for calling in.

And I think your comments get to the heart of one of the tensions were discussing here today, which is, I know both Vermont and Quebec have, some separatist history to them.

And, sometimes struggle with the ties to their larger nation and have a lot of opposing political views.

And, you know, in this situation, how closely do we stay united as a country versus as a region in the world?

And, Sean, I want to bring in one more voice here.

My colleague at Vermont Public, Pete Hirschfeld, is a statehouse reporter based in Montpelier.

Usually covers Vermont government.

But Pete, like many of us, you have been focused on contextualizing some of the national news for our region.

And, you've been speaking with a lot of Vermont business owners recently about the effects of these tariffs and President Trump's, statements about Canada.

What have you heard?

Yeah.

You know, I think ever since, we saw Canada come into the white House crosshairs, first with the 51st state rhetoric, then with the tariffs that were, threatened and then then withdrawn shortly after.

And a lot of anecdotal evidence that, folks that live in Canada and Quebec specifically were not going to be coming to Vermont at the numbers that we had become accustomed to.

We're beginning to see some statistical evidence that that is, in fact, the case.

We know from some statistics compiled in Canada that, in last year, during the month of March, the number of cars that went from Canada into Vermont, New Hampshire and New York was 603,000.

And we know that this past March, that number was down to 472,000.

So, this is a real phenomenon.

This is affecting the, Canadians appetite to come to Vermont.

And and it's an economic reality, a new economic reality that is, is going to affect a lot of businesses here.

And what is Vermont's governor, Phil Scott, said in response to, President Trump's actions?

He has been especially, upset by the tariffs.

He says he thinks these are a horrible idea.

He doesn't think from an economic, philosophy perspective that this is the right tool for the job he's trying to get done.

And he's also expressed concern about, what he calls the inflammatory rhetoric that the Trump has used when talking about Canada.

I'll say his rhetoric has has not been, nearly as, acute as people like Senate President Pro Tem Phil Berreth, who is the leader of the of the Vermont State Senate.

And he actually, in a committee hearing last month, took the opportunity to formally apologize to Canada and to Canadians, for what Donald Trump has been saying about them becoming the 51st state and also sort of telling Vermonters, not to underestimate how deep the economic wounds could be to the state as a result of that rhetoric.

We got an email from Greg in Thetford who says that they skied at Jay Peak, close to the border, during the first week of March, when most of the people there were Canadians on their March break while riding the ski lifts, I had many friendly conversations which frequently touched on politics.

I often apologized for Donald Trump's acrimonious language and tariffs and pointed out that less than a third of Vermonters had voted for them.

I hope that they would continue to feel, to visit and feel welcome.

Pete, lastly, you spoke to folks at JP and a number of other businesses, as we've mentioned.

Are there any other specific conversations, that stick out to you from from that reporting?

Yeah.

Steve, right.

As the president of JP resort, and he says that among Canadian ski pass holders, early sales for next winter seasons passes are down by 80%, eight 0%.

And he actually has been calling the heads of those households to find out.

Why aren't you booking?

And he said almost to a person, it's not because of the taxes, it's not because of the currency exchange.

It's not because of trouble crossing the border.

He said it's because of the challenge to their sovereignty by our administration.

And so, there's a growing sense in places like the Northeast Kingdom, especially, that it is going to be, a rough summer ahead as it relates to tourism dollars coming in from Canada.

Well, Pete Hirschfeld, thanks so much for driving over from Montpelier to speak with me and Sean today.

Yeah, I'm glad you all are doing the show.

It's a cool idea.

Thanks.

I want to make sure we get to one more caller there in Quebec.

So do I.

So let's go to Sandy, who's calling from the Laurentians from since the very high sandy.

Hi, Sandy.

What do you want to say to people listening in Vermont?

I want to say that for 23 years I've been married to a Quebecer and I'm from Miami, Florida, and for 23 years we've gone back and forth respectfully of each other's country and our country's rules.

And, while we don't necessarily agree with a lot of the things that are going on with the United States with regards to, Canada, because it's not showing, I think, the kind of respect that we have shown with each other.

And, we're going to continue to do it.

And, and so, both of our countries that, they can't conquer our love, I guess that seems like a great place to leave.

Thanks.

Thank you so much for that phone call.

Michaela.

We are just about out of time.

This has literally flown by.

Yes, yes, I it's been such a pleasure doing this with you, Sean, and with all your fingers.

Great.

Thank you for approaching us.

Great idea.

I want to thank everybody who is listening for listening to this special edition of Radio Noon here and Vermont Edition on Vermont Public.

Thanks to our guests.

Thanks to everybody who phoned in from both sides of the border.

And McAuliffe, thank you so much for co-hosting this with me tonight.

Yeah.

Thank you.

Sean, I learned so much.