>> Our next guest knows a thing or 2 about history as he's made a fair bit of it himself.

Lonnie Bunch has led the Smithsonian Institution since 2019.

He was the first African-American and the first historian in the position overseeing 21 museums, the National Zoo, several libraries and education and research centers.

He recently announced that he'll be stepping down at the end of the year.

His decision comes amid ongoing battles with the Trump administration.

And joining us now with more is Lonnie Bunch.

Before his time at the Smithsonian, he served as president and director of the Chicago Historical Society now known as the Chicago History Museum Secretary.

Welcome back.

Thank you for joining us.

>> Thank you.

Always love to be back in Chicago.

>> So in a statement you when announcing your retirement, you said that you are doing so with, quote, mixed emotions.

Why mixed?

What what are some of those emotions?

>> some ways love this was It's where it's been almost 40 years of my career and Mike, my new is always want to be there, too.

Hope the Smithsonian Protect the Smithsonian support.

This wasn't me.

So what's really with mixed emotions are moving.

So if they're most 40 years, it's time.

>> It's time.

I have to ask, of course, if the president's efforts to influence the museum have impacted your decision at all.

>> be honest, I stayed longer importantly because it wanted to protect the Smithsonian.

>> Recently, the Trump administration has requested an investigation into the Smithsonian and threatened to withhold federal funding just last week it announced plans to add temporary signs warning visitors of, quote, radical ideologies outside of some buildings.

What do you make of the president's attacks on museum?

>> You know, don't know why this is being done.

I can tell you is that the Smithsonian is driven by scholarship.

2, 3, its job in some is to be reservoir of history or culture that the public can dip into for clarity.

can do for understanding for a little bit of hope.

So for me, this new series always been this amazing places 80 years.

It sued.

America.

Want is continue to do that in the future.

>> Do you think any of these actions are an attempt to rewrite history >> I think that there's always the debate over what's accurate history and we believe what we to Zachary history.

I think it's important.

There's discussion whom you to complex story to cool.

Difficult stories.

I think in some ways you can understand America.

We understanding how much we with challenges.

I think that I don't see these American spirit.

We see these away.

America is trying to live to the ideals of the Jefferson of the weekend.

struggle.

That's to but it gets better.

So for me, understanding the complexity, the pain.

this really understand how we as a nation have evolved in grooming make better?

>> Before becoming secretary of the institution, the Smithsonian, you're also the driving force behind building developing.

And then, of course, becoming the first leader of the National National Museum of African-American History and Culture.

Why did you think it was important to have a physical space to honor African American history and that that physical space be under the Smithsonian versus any other museum organization in the country.

>> Well, I think first of it was important to recognize that America's history is too big for one bill and that American story is both a story of the community, but it's also a story of the nation.

So I wanted to be part of this is Sunni.

And because here is where millions of people will come to explore questions, issues, exhibits that they may doing their own time, but because it come to the Smithsonian, it's a great educational opportunity.

We think the fact sure 2 million people have been to that museum where it it's so for me, it really meant this was a chance to say.

the mayor the Mall of America is where the world comes, understand what it in America.

And you can understand interstate.

It could complexity of the African-American experience.

So for me, this was just a wonderful opportunity to make sure that when people come to watch, you can become part of this was to it to understand the fullness of the store.

>> You've served as the secretary of the Smithsonian for 7 years, of course, and in different roles over over the years.

But during the 7 Secretary, you have seen her country deal with the global pandemic.

The Black Lives Matter movement, a polarized political climates and threats to art and culture driven by artificial intelligence.

How do you navigate those challenges will also thinking about how those events are going to be recorded in history.

>> Well, think first of got to remember sometimes a signal krishnamurthy this, too.

there's no doubt this has been a challenge to 7 years.

So I think part of what we wanted to do was really to levels.

One how do you protect this was soon as the Smithsonian Protective staff during pandemic as this mystery and continue to serve the public with its museums record.

So it really thinking creatively about how to make sure we serve the public and then it's important to recognize part of the job of the museum is the cooler today for 2 more So I want to make sure that we call it that the pandemic.

We wanted to make sure things we collect.

It was my daughter was an emergency medicine in turn in Chicago.

So we collect diverse groups that she wore during the pandemic.

We wanted to make sure that every aspect, whether it's about the political partisanship, whether it's about Black Lives Matter that was would be collected.

So that is sort of the fusion will have much to be able to the stories that will really help people understand what it was like in this period.

>> And of course, we know that, you know, you spent some time in Chicago running what is now known as the Chicago History Museum.

How did your time in Chicago help repair due to leave the Smithsonian later?

>> Chicago's defense, there's no there.

There.

First of all, it's going really rich complex history.

You know, it's a city of neighborhoods each Tuesday, which history.

So it was really fascinating to figure how life together for the you make sure you explore different communities.

Different areas but be able to save Minot together, understand what it means to be a skirt.

Well, so I think that Chicago took me a lot about politics me.

Good Politics and compared to Chicago.

It's so in many ways, Chicago to let me have to be fundraiser to be that leader is my first time really in museum.

So I give a lot of credit to the city of Chicago to the way the city embraced me me about this, and basically said you've got good use instrument.

All >> It's Chicago also celebrated another major museum milestone with the opening, of course, of the Obama presidential center over the summer.

What are you hopeful people will take away from that landmark.

>> Well, think presidential libraries and senators to really be president said do want live very well.

That story is really is a bigger story.

Understand the mayor had new generations understand the political system.

do you make sure that the Obama library is as much about helping America?

Because it is remembering a lot.

I think that's one of the powerful things that the La River.

>> there's a decline Secretary museum visits and financial investment with the rise of the digital era.

How do you encourage people to appreciate history and understand the significance of museums?

>> Well, I think that what I see is while for people who want to deal with everything to the digital Also, when I talk to younger Americans, they also recognize they want to see city that they grew up in a digital world and to see the real object real story.

think that's really part of the appeal of these museum.

But also you see him doing it's a social experience.

So rather than individual online museum, you're going engage with people.

You don't And look at an object can certainly think of in different because the conversation should here zoo will always play this crucial and I think museums in many ways reported the glue that holds communities to give.

So it's incumbent upon museums just talk about why they're important to the city, what they hope the city understand when I was in Chicago retaken by the museum's in the near 90 museums.

talk a lot about.

Here's how we help.

The city putting hits.

is unreal to understanding science or history so important that Israelis making the argument.

Why are these museums port?

>> You've said that you will stay in your current role until the end of the year as the search continues for your successor, what kind of experience and personality do you think it takes to fill this role?

>> I mean, I think that what you want is somebody who understands the system who cares about the fact that it's really be in Non-partisan sight of now, is really tried to increase and issues.

Now a strategist 180 years.

Also when somebody who cares passionately about working the political system to protect the institution or a need to understand to do that.

You know, you want to somebody who sort to say when all else fails, blame the guy before.

>> couple seconds left.

Mister Secretary, what's next?

What you hope to accomplish before you leave?

>> You know, I want to knew zooms around the world tell the stories they want probably do.

Little teaching is some universe that may want to hire me.

But the real Julie's, I want to spend time with my grandkids that live in Chicago.

So that's really the key for me.

Spending more time to >> Excellent.

We love to hear it.

So you'll give us a call.

Next time you're back in town.

Smithsonian Secretary Lonnie Bu >> And we're back with more right after this.

>> Reflecting the people and perspectives that make a buck