Vermont's own Beta Technologies debuts at the New York Stock Exchange this week.

It was the company aims to expand could the Trump administration's policies alter its course?

Plus, Vermonters made their voices heard on Election Day.

We dive into what passed and what was voted down.

All that and more ahead on Vermont This Week.

From the Vermont Public studio in Winooski.

This is Vermont This Week, made possible in part by the Lintilhac Foundation and Milne Travel.

Here's moderator Mitch Wertlieb.

Welcome, everyone.

I'm Mitch Wertlieb.

It's November 7th Friday, and on the panel today we are joined by Calvin Cutler WCAX Derek Brouwer with Seven Days.

And joining us remotely today.

Howard Weiss-Tisman from Vermont Public.

Thank you all so much for joining us today.

We're going to start with the big story that we teased there at the top.

Beta Technologies.

Derek Brouwer.

Initial public offering happened this week on Tuesday.

Looked like a big success.

What can you tell us about this company, about beta, how it got started, what they do?

Yeah, I mean, this is a hugely significant moment for for one of Vermont's most dynamic companies that we've really ever seen.

I mean, this is a startup that, began eight years ago and a kind of a rundown hangar and Burlington International Airport trying to build, electric planes, that, will revolutionize, revolutionize aviation.

And a lot of ways, we're still trying to understand.

And since then, they have raised over, $2 billion.

They raised just a billion, this week with their IPO.

Which is money that they need to, bring their plane to market, which they are still endeavoring to do.

And that goal is still at least a year away for one of their planes and two years away for another.

It's a really immense project to bring a new type of aircraft, to market in the United States.

And they are racing alongside some other man, some other manufacturers, to be the first to to do this.

So they employ a lot of people, I imagine, too, they do.

And it's been I can't even keep track of how quickly they're growing.

Every time I check in with them, the number is higher than it was the last time.

It's over 800 people now.

And, their founder and CEO, Kyle Clark, told me this week that it's still every every other Monday, they have a classroom full of new hires.

It's an astonishing clip that this company is growing so really important to Vermont's economy.

Obviously.

Governor Phil Scott was likening them to IBM.

And what's the comparison there?

The comparison really comes down to how significant this company is for the Vermont economy.

I mean, IBM transformed Chittenden County and a lot of different ways it transformed communities.

It brought a ton of wealth and into the area with, with good wages and Beta's doing some similar things.

The real difference, I think, is that, beta is not does not yet have a product.

They are all of this growth has been driven by, startup capital investment that they've been able to, acquire by convincing people that this plane someday will be able to make a lot of money by transforming aviation.

But we're not at that day yet.

So this company, you know, has been it speaks to how expensive it is to build a plane that you can hire 800 people before you have any revenue.

But, you know, I think that is the big question with this company is, you know, this is a big step on their journey, but there are some real, decision points ahead and turning points that are still in store.

And, you know, Kevin, I know you've been covering this as well.

I'm curious about the timing of going with this initial public offering.

I mean, you know, why now?

You said, as you were saying, about eight years they've been in business.

Why do you think they went for this now?

So Kyle Clark said, we know right afterward he, or after they rang the bell for their IPO, he addressed the media from from New York.

And he had said basically that, you know, that now is the time to sort of let their company be unleashed and to grow, to try to, get, take advantage or take control of more parts of their own supply chain that he said that they're already running into some issues, in terms of getting parts or getting labor from certain contractors.

So there's that piece to it.

There is also some might say as well, you know, maybe more of a political component here.

And I don't know if that's what you were referring to, about potential changes at the federal level as, as well.

I was definitely going to wade into those waters.

Yeah.

Because, you know, again, this is a company, as Derek was saying, that, you know, they're making aircraft, could be used for many different things.

But as we talked about at the top there, what are some of the things that are happening now with the Trump administration that could change the course of what this company does?

Yeah.

So of course, we mentioned that data is, you know, all these planes are all electric, carbon free.

You know, the during the Biden administration, the, the beta technologies had secured contracts with a number of big, big, big companies and big organizations.

One of them being the Department of Defense.

Now, here we are in the second Trump administration and one of the president, his main goals are his stated policy objectives has been to sort of push back on on green energy and to unleash American energy, you know, looking at new forms like nuclear, oil and gas trying to secure, you know, rare earth minerals for microchips and semiconductors to fuel AI and defense and national security and, and all of that.

So when you look at data and where they stand with, you know, we're making electric planes, there is a potential ideological rub there in terms of you know, Beta's vision and the president's vision.

We even saw, Secretary Peake, Pete Hegseth, when he addressed, a gathering of generals, I believe it was last month.

He, you know, described the need to eliminate woke green ideology from the, Department of Defense and what they're calling out, the Department of War.

So we've seen, some money get clawed back from data already.

There was $1.8 million last month from the department of Energy.

We don't know exactly what will happen with the Department of Defense.

But there there is a real, real concern there.

I mean, we can get into sort of tactically how this works on the battlefield and what the Department of Defense looks for or not.

But on its face there there could be an issue there.

Well, let me turn that back to you, Derek Brouwer.

I mean, are they looking to make, aircraft that would have a military use?

Yeah, certainly.

They've been, working with the Air Force for for years.

The Air Force actually was helping to incubate this technology earlier on.

Interestingly, the military has become a little bit, more cautious with respect to this technology because it's it's still unclear what exactly these planes are going to be useful for now, I think in terms of what the the issues you're mentioning.

Calvin.

You know, Beta Yes.

Part of their mission is to, is to make aviation, carbon free.

But the but they're also trying to unlock and this is really something Peter emphasizes is unlock new ways of viewing using aircraft across the world.

So this, these, these planes, they, they function in a different kind of manner with different sort of cost profiles from traditional aircraft.

And so, the theory is that this will be attractive for all kinds of different uses that right now, helicopters, for instance, are just too expensive, to, to be worth it.

So beta is, is banking on this idea that these planes will help, companies like U.P.S.

deliver packages to more rural areas more quickly.

New Zealand is is exploring, whether or not this can be used to transport mail between the two islands, down there.

So, you know, there are all these.

And then, of course, there's the, the, the sort of utopian vision that this industry has been built upon, which is, personalized air travel, Jetsons style, urban air travel, which, seems to be, still some years off.

Now, there are a whole host of issues related to that.

But, but these planes that it is trying to make can take off vertically like a helicopter without the noise, and without the cost associated with it, which in theory opens up, new forms of travel across cities and things like that.

And to Calvin's point, you know, if you're talking about planes for private travel, we all know how much carbon is used by these private jets that, you know, it's not ecologically very sound.

But again, that rubs against what the Trump administration is saying here.

It sounds like this could be a great thing if you got an electric plane that can take people and whisk them off to an island somewhere, right.

And to be clear, I mean, you know, not just with these types of aircraft, but like, you know, when we talk about the Department of Defense, you know, batteries are changing the battlefield.

You know, you look at Ukraine and Russia, you know, drones are being used, if you have a V-12 vertical takeoff and landing aircraft like beta that might play, you know, a certain role on the battlefield if it's a quiet plane.

Right.

So there is to to Derek's point, you know, it's a really dynamic space here.

But one thing that we're talking about, and that's the sort of belabor the point, but you know, there's beta but there's a lot of other companies in Vermont, that make, you know, parts for the aerospace industry and that are also kind of hitching their fortunes to the electric aircraft industry.

I was up in Montreal two years ago for the Aerospace Montreal, convention, and there was, I think, over 75 or 80, companies, very small startups that are here in Vermont that are also trying to sort of hitch their fortunes to this, this emerging industry.

And about to Derek's point about, you know, just changing the way of of how human beings get around.

It's going to be so fascinating to see where this goes.

And one more quick point before we're off this topic here.

Derek Brouwer, I wanted to ask you about this.

I said the you know, the IPOs came out on Tuesday kind of a big success.

You've been tracking, though, some of the some of the stock, prices here.

What's the latest on that?

Well, you know, it's, there were it was sort of a surprise in some sense that Baidu was able to go public in the first place right now, given the government shutdown.

And they actually took advantage of, some, some sort of emergency rules that the SEC, put out so that they could pull this off.

But, as it turns out, this has been actually a pretty tough week for the stock market.

Consumer sentiment data came out.

That looks pretty bad, some of the worst ever.

And so, stocks led by tech stocks, but are really nosediving this week.

And last I checked, before we started this show, their stock was down below its IPO price.

So, you know, there's going to be ups and downs.

We're going to have to wait and see how this, how how the market responds to data over a longer period of time.

But but overall it was a hugely successful, IPO for, for what it was, they were able to raise more than they even, intended to, which is a sign that there are still people with some deep pockets who are very interested in this technology.

Oh, thanks so much for the update on that.

Again, you can read Derek's full story in seven days on better Technologies.

Howard West, I want to turn to you now.

You have been, following a bunch of things happening in Vermont this week related to elections.

Now, we didn't have any any, political elections to talk about.

But before we get to some of the things that were voted on or voted down, there were a couple of, schools, that were had their fates sort of decided in southern Vermont.

This was not related to Election Day, necessarily, but what can you update us on with these two schools in southern Vermont and what's happening with them?

Yeah, sure.

So these were two schools and the Taconic and Green Regional School District, and that's over in southwestern Vermont, kind of between Manchester and Rutland.

We're talking about the Courier Memorial School, which is in Danby, and the Sunderland Elementary School.

The district there has been talking about these, two schools for for a little while now for a couple of years.

But I think the act 73 education transformation legislation that we've been talking about so much really kind of jumpstarted the whole conversation.

Both of these elementary schools have about 50 kids, which is kind of below the threshold that act 73 set.

So the writing was kind of on the wall that these, schools were going to close, just a few days before the board voted to close the school, there was a local vote.

The folks in those communities said they did not want the school to close.

We've been hearing and, witnessing conversations like this all over Vermont about these small schools.

I think, along with the 73, there's also the fact that taxpayers are so tapped out.

I think that the conversation around small schools is changing a little bit.

There's also a lot of uncertainty about school construction aid.

Both of these two small schools needed some help.

And, the school board just said it was time to close these schools.

They're going to close at the end of the school year.

The kids are going to go to the doors at school.

And, yeah, two more elementary schools are closing.

Is there are there any issues around transportation for those kids that need to change schools?

Is it going to be a burden for parents?

Yeah, sure.

Again, we've been hearing these conversations, for a long time.

A lot of the parents are concerned about that.

Again, these are elementary, pre-K or elementary schools.

So you're talking about kindergarten kids, possibly, sitting on a bus for 40 minutes or more.

But again, I'm just feeling like there are these conversations that we've been hearing are changing a little bit.

There are fewer people.

There is a little more recognition that having three kids in a first grade class is really not the best education in any way.

And, I think there's a little bit more appetite now for closing these small schools than there were ten years ago when we were talking about act 46 and everything else.

Okay, let's get to some things that were voted on, this week and this was sort of a big issue.

A lot of people were following this.

There was a question about a $149 million bond for a tech center in central Vermont.

Would this pass?

Would it not pass?

Howard, what happened there?

It was voted down pretty soundly.

I think there are some parallels with the conversation we just had about the southwest Vermont.

Taxpayers are just tapped out.

This was a really, really big project.

The Career Center district.

There are 18 towns in Washington County that send their kids there, and they've been trying to get a new tech center built since 2018.

The superintendent told me, and this was a standalone phone center.

They were going to build a completely brand new.

The facilities they have at Spalding High School in Barre are outdated.

We are hearing a lot about technical education.

We need workers.

We need Vermont students getting into the trades.

So there's a lot of support for the idea.

But some of the comments and, what we've been hearing is that, again, people are just tapped out.

This was going to raise taxes across the district in all 18 towns, very significantly in some towns.

And I think people were voting with their pocketbooks.

They were just saying, we can't afford it.

Even though we support tech education, even though we know we need this facility, it just was not a good time to bring it up right now.

Kelvin Cutler, you were covering this as well.

Is that track with what, you were hearing from voters about why they voted this down?

Absolutely.

There was the cost concerns, but there was also the broader, as Howard mentioned, the uncertainty around the education reform.

You know, we talk about the need for these, these this type of education.

I mean, this you know, these are, home construction, plumbing, electric.

I mean, these are like, critical for our jobs to great paying jobs, great job security.

Kyle Clark of Beta even went to Essex, and, you know, got his start in this.

Right.

So this is a real, a real pinch point here in the state.

And, you know, to the point about, bonds.

I was talking with the Superintendents Association this week and they said, you know, we haven't had state support for building new schools in almost 20 years since the Great Recession, when the moratorium was placed.

And in that time, the only big bonds that have passed have been in Chittenden County.

That's because, you know, because of the funding system we have set up right now, towns that are more thrifty or more tax averse or more cost burdened will vote down their budgets, while more affluent towns will vote up their budgets.

But yet the the bonds, that is.

But yet those smaller or those, those lower spending towns are still paying for it out of the education fund.

So that's really you know, there's we talk about the governance angle, the redistricting angle, the finance angle.

But the school construction piece of this is is really critical.

And actually there's a meeting on that happening today.

So, yeah, I think it right now it's back to the drawing board.

But I'll just last point on it.

You know, there is a huge waitlist.

You know, there's hundreds of students that want to get into this program every year.

They are working on trying to expand their electrical programs, and a few others at auxiliary spaces like in Randolph and, and others.

But, certainly, you know, it's a real an inflection point for, for, you know, this type of education and what it means for education reform.

Yeah.

You had the juxtaposition too, between Beta's IPO.

And, you know, these communities in Vermont that are struggling to, to build the infrastructure that supports that kind of industry simultaneously.

It really I think, speaks to this, bifurcated state of our economy today.

No question.

And when we're talking about, you know, that push and pull between what do we want to spend on and the priorities and what we need.

Howard West has been you've been this is a fascinating story to me in Plainfield, a bond was rejected.

This dealt with some housing projects moving forward.

Plainfield, of course, we know, has been hit so hard by flooding in the past couple of years.

But the bond was rejected here.

What?

What were the two different sides who wanted to see some of this housing build?

What kind of housing was it?

Was it densely populated?

And why ultimately, did this fail?

Yeah, this is a really fascinating story.

So as you mentioned Plainfield, was it really hard in 2023, 2024?

The town lost about 40 homes to FEMA buyouts.

And that's a lot of housing, both for the housing issue and a lot of money off the town's grand list.

Very small town.

And so the Selectboard said, we need to get aggressive here.

We need to be ambitious.

Let's see what the town can do to develop some housing.

And so they found a piece of land, about 24 acres, that's close to the village center, that can be connected to the water and wastewater and electricity and everything.

It's not connected yet.

So the question on the ballot on Tuesday was whether or not the town should borrow $600,000 to purchase this land, and so that was the base thing.

On top of that, they want to get like a $10 million grant, and that will allow the town to build roads up there and connect to water, wastewater and set it up.

The town is not going to build that housing.

The idea was that we would develop this land so that housing developers can come in and build the structures.

So the vote on Tuesday was again, to borrow this money and that, was rejected by about 12%.

It was close, but it was pretty strongly the town of Plainfield saying, we don't want to borrow this money.

So now the conversation is getting really interesting, with the two sides digging their heels in.

The supporters of this project say the project is not that they're saying this question was only about borrowing this money.

This is not a referendum on the project.

Our residents didn't want us to borrow and pay interest, but we're still moving ahead.

The folks who are opposed to this, who have a whole long list of reasons why they're opposed, including this land, has wetlands on it.

It's kind of steep.

They're worried about erosion.

They're worried about, you know, a really dense cluster of housing.

Right.

In the village, they say this was a referendum.

They say that this was the first time really, that Plainfield was able to weigh in.

They voted it down.

And so the two sides are a little bit at loggerheads.

You know, Plainfield is a really groovy town.

There's a lot of community support there.

There's a lot of good feeling in the town.

But I spoke to both sides and each side is frustrated with the other.

It's a big project.

You know, a small town like that, taking on 40 unit housing development.

It's very ambitious.

We haven't seen it much in Vermont.

So certainly this vote is not the end of it by any stretch.

When you say it's not the end of it, when could this come up again?

Feasibly, I think it's already up.

The supporters say there they are still applying for this $10 million, disaster relief grant.

They say that they are looking at other ways to buy this land, either through, private or grants or some other ways.

So they are moving ahead with it.

The opponents think they had a, a success here and, it's, it's we're going to see where it goes.

But the supporters are moving ahead with it.

They still think it's on track.

I do appreciate to Howard what you said about Plainfield being a groovy, kind of place.

And, you know, the other thing that we saw with some of that terrible flooding was the volunteer effort in Plainfield, especially with young people, was tremendous.

People came out, were helping neighbors dig out and just get through a really rough time.

There.

Yeah, absolutely.

And that's why it's a little bit troubling coming out of that good feeling.

And all of the, you know, the angst and the, the, really tough stories we saw there are people losing their housing to kind of have the town now really struggling with this reality of things are different.

The floods have come, the floods are still probably going to come.

We can't develop where we've been all these years.

Something has to change and, we're going to see where it goes.

And briefly, Howard, can you give us, some, some sort of mini updates on other votes that you felt were significant on Tuesday?

Yeah.

Like you said, it wasn't a big year.

There were a couple of flood mitigation projects in Cabot, Flensburg and Barre, which were all, approved.

The Barre votes were interesting.

There were two flood projects, 2.4 million for housing and another 3 million or so to move their public works facility up out of the flood zone.

So both of those were supported.

But in Berlin, they wanted to build a new rec center.

This is a $1.8 million project.

This is the third time the town voted on it.

And, they said they didn't want it.

It was it was turned down.

So that project is dead, at least for now.

All right, Howard, thank you so much for those updates.

Really appreciate it.

Calvin Cutler, a story that, both you and Dirk Bauer, too, I know, have been covering, quite a bit, Vermont State Housing Authority, the the section eight, that they have, it could be in some trouble here.

What's happening with this?

Yeah.

This is this isn't necessarily shut down related, but this is related to the budget that was passed back in March.

And essentially, I mean, we know that, you know, there's a lot of financial headwinds that have been, you know, coming toward this program.

The money just isn't going as every year the money doesn't go as far as it went the past year because of inflation, because of housing costs, because of wages, of, you know, people who are receiving these benefits are also stagnant for the most part.

And so this year in the budget that was passed in Congress, for section eight vouchers for the Vermont State Housing Authority and other organizations that dole this money out to, you know, people to, subsidies to help keep a roof over people's heads.

The money isn't going as far in this year.

It didn't account for inflation.

And so, that leaves, three of our housing authorities here in Vermont with a deficit, with of about $1 million.

You know, we're okay right now for December.

But if this isn't addressed, you know, this might come up, in the legislative session.

Lawmakers, the board, the governor, they might have to put state money toward this.

So, but there's a lot of folks that are really concerned about, you know, these vouchers potentially not being issued or going away because, you know, it's keeping a roof over people's heads.

But also, I mean, these vouchers are critical and rising people up from poverty and getting them out of homelessness and into stable housing.

So there is definitely a lot of concern from anti home.

Anti homelessness advocates, something to keep an eye on I would imagine.

Yeah I mean this is an immensely complicated program.

But the bottom line is that with the system we have set up today, if the section eight program grinds to a halt or actually retrench is that we have virtually no hope of improving, the homelessness rate in the state, it is just absolutely crucial to getting people out of homelessness.

Okay.

Thank you.

And before we go, I want to mention that, nice some nice news for the family of, the late, great rock n roll singer songwriter, Warren Zevon.

He's getting into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame posthumously.

It's about time, his family is going to go out, and they live in Vermont, by the way.

They're going to go out and and check out that celebration.

The other thing the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame could get right.

And, Calvin, I know you're going to back me up on this one.

We got to get phish in there, right?

Yeah.

You know, I'm glad you mentioned it.

Mitch had to, Yeah.

Had to, but unfortunately, they did not, not make it in this year.

But, I mean, big congratulations to this Vermont family.

But, boy, it's nice to see phish.

Nice to see you in there.

Yeah.

Yes on phish.

Derek.

Yes on phish, Howard.

I'm going to say thats a yes, sure.

Why not?

Thank you so much to our panel this week Derek Brouwer Seven Days, Calvin Cutler, and Howard Weiss-Tisman with Vermont Public.

I'm Mitch leave.

Join us next Friday.

Hope you have a great week.

And.