>> A NEW STATE BUDGET OH MERGING IN MONTPELIER, AND IT'S BIG.

>> WE HAVE YOUR BACK.

WE ARE SUPPORTING YOU WITH AFFORDABLE HOUSING, CHILD CARE, WITH PAID LEAVE, WITH WORKFORCE DEVELOPMENT.

>> GOVERNOR SCOTT THINKS IT GOES TOO FAR RAISING TACTS AND FEES EVEN THOUGH MONTPELIER IS AWASH WITH MONEY SO WHERE ARE WE HEADING?

>> PLUS VERMONT'S 50-YEAR-OLD BOTTLE DEPOSIT LAW THIS YEAR LOOKS PRIMED FOR EXPANSION.

FROM HOUSING TO CHILD CARE, HIGHLIGHTS AND ANALYSIS FROM A BUSY WEEK AT THE CAPITOL.

PLUS WHY A FORMER VERMONT GOVERNOR IS SUING HIS ALMA MATER.

AHEAD ON "VERMONT THIS WEEK."

>> FROM THE VERMONT PUBLIC STUDIO IN WINOOSKI THIS IS "VERMONT THIS WEEK," MADE POSSIBLE IN PART BY THE LINTILHAC FOUNDATION AND MILNE TRAVEL.

HERE'S MODERATE STEWART LEDBETTER.

>> WELCOME, EVERYONE.

I'M STEWART LEDBETTER.

THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE.

IT'S FRIDAY, THE 31st OF MARCH, AROUND OUR TABLE WE WELCOME BACK TIM MCQUISTON, EDITOR OF VERMONT BUSINESS MAGAZINE.

DIANE DERBY, SENIOR EDITOR AT VTDIGGER, AND FROM MONTPELIER PETER HIRSCHFELD, STATE HOUSE REPORTER WITH VERMONT PUBLIC.

GREAT TO HAVE YOU HERE.

DIANE, WELCOME BACK AFTER A FEW YEARS AWAY.

IT'S GREAT TO HAVE YOU.

>> THANK YOU.

>> WE BEGIN AS WE SAID CRAZY WEEK IN MONTPELIER, THE HOUSE ON FRIDAY ADVANCING AN 8.5 BILLION DOLLAR ALL IN SPENDING PACKAGE FOR THE NEW FISCAL YEAR STARTING IN JULY.

IT WAS LOPSIDED VOTE ON FINAL PASSAGE THIS FRIDAY.

THE DAY BEFORE BOTH REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS LINED UP IN FRONT OF THE CAMERAS TO ASSAIL OR PRAISE WHAT THE APPROPRIATIONS COMMITTEE HAD COME UP WITH.

>> UNDER THIS BUDGET, VERMONTERS WOULD PAY MORE AND IN MANY CASES GET LESS WITH MORE TO PAY IN THE FUTURE.

>> WE HAVE YOUR BACK.

WE'RE SUPPORTING YOU WITH AFFORDABLE HOUSING, CHILD CARE, PAID LEAVE, WORKFORCE DEVELOPMENT AND OTHER SUPPORTS FOR HEALTH CARE AND COMMUNITY PROVIDERS.

>> BEFORE WE GET TO THE OPPOSITION, PETE, YOU HAVE SEEN A LOT OF THESE BUDGETS CONSTRUCTS OVER THE YEARS.

HOW DOES THIS ONE LOOK?

DEMOCRATS ARE FRAMING THIS AS THEY WERE DELIVERING WHAT THEY GOT ELECTED TO PASS.

>> YES, I THINK WE HEARD HOUSE SPEAKER JILL CROWE WIN SAY SAY WHEN VOTERS WENT TO THE POLLS IN NOVEMBER THEY SAW FIT TO 104 DEMOCRATS IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, AND THEY ARE RESPONDING TO THAT MANDATE, LEGISLATIVE MANDATE, BY MOVING FORWARD WITH A SPENDING PROPOSAL THEY THINK REFLECTS THE VALUES AND PRIORITIES OF THE VERMONTERS THAT ELECTED THEM TO OFFICE.

SHE MENTIONED CHILD CARE, MENTIONED PAID LEAVE, HOUSING.

ALL OF THOSE ARE IN THE BIG TICKET ITEMS.

YOU'RE SEEING SIGNIFICANT NEW INVESTMENTS IN MEDICAID REIMBURSEMENT SO 46 MILLION IN THE HOUSE BUDGET THAT WAS NOT IN GOVERNOR'S SPENDING PLAN THAT'S GOING TO GO TO THINGS LIKE INCREASING FUNDING FOR LONG TERM AND RESIDENTIAL CARE FACILITIES.

TAKING CARE OF OLDER VERMONTERS.

THEY ARE COMING UNDER UNUSUALLY WITHERING CRITICISM FROM GOVERNOR PHIL SCOTT FOR SOME OF THE TAX AND FEE INCREASES THAT ARE NEEDED TO PAY FOR THIS SPENDING PROPOSAL.

BUT THEY ARE STANDING BY IT APPEARED SAY THEY THINK VERMONTERS WILL BE WITH THEM.

>> SO HIGHER MEDICAID REIMBURSEMENT RATES, BIG DOWN PAYMENT ON EXPANDING CHILD CARE, ON PAID FAMILY MEDICAL LEAVE.

THAT'S THE UNIVERSAL SYSTEM, NOT THE VOLUNTARY SYSTEM THAT THE ADMINISTRATION WANTS.

IT ALL ADDS UP TO A PRETTY BIG YEAR TO YEAR INCREASE IN SPENDING.

>> I'M TRULY WORRIED ABOUT THE SENIORS ON FIXED INCOMES, THE WORKING FAMILIES WHO CAN'T AFFORD TO PAY MORE AND THE COMMUNITIES WHO NEED OUR HELP MOST.

I ALSO WORRY ABOUT HOW WE WILL POSSIBLY PAY FOR ALL OF THIS AS WE LOOK TOWARDS AN UNCERTAIN ECONOMIC FUTURE.

>> THAT WAS GOVERNOR SCOTT AT HIS PREVIOUS BRIEFING ON WEDNESDAY.

PETE, HE NOTES THAT THIS IS A 12% INCREASE IN GENERAL FUND SPENDING.

THAT'S A LOT.

>> IT'S A SIGNIFICANT INCREASE.

I'LL NOTE OVER ALL SPENDING, THE 8.5 3W-8ION NUMBER IS ABOUT THE SAME AS WHAT WE'RE SPENDING THIS FISCAL YEAR '23 BUDGET.

TO THE GOVERNOR'S POINT, YES, THE HOUSE HAS CHOSEN TO MAKE SOME INVESTMENTS IN ONGOING BASE EXPENDITURES.

IT'S A LOT OF LITTLE THINGS SPREAD OUT OVER A LOT OF PLACES BUT THAT ADD UP TO A FRISKED AMOUNT OF MONEY.

THEY BELIEVE IT'S MUCH GREATER THAN KEEP BUDGET GROWTH GENERAL FUND GROWTH TO A SET PERCENTAGE AND THEY ARE READY TO DEFEND THAT PHILOSOPHY AGAINST THE GOVERNOR.

>> TIM, HOW DOES IT LOOK TO YOU?

>> IT SEEMS TO ME THEY HAVE THE EQUAL AND OPPOSITE ARGUMENT.

THERE'S ALL THIS MONEY WRIGHT NOW BOTH FEDERAL STILL COMING IN AN ENORMOUS STATE SURPLUS WHICH WE'LL TALK ABOUT LATER AND THE GOVERNOR SAYING WE CAN'T SPEND IT ALL NOW BECAUSE IT'S GOING TO END.

WE DON'T KNOW WHEN BUT IT'S GOING TO END.

THE LAWMAKERS ARE SAYING THE EXACT SAME THING.

WE HAVE ALL THIS MONEY LET'S GET THIS STUFF DONE NOW WHILE WE HAVE THE MONEY.

IT'S REALLY THEY ARE NOT ARGUING ABOUT THE NICKELS AND DIMES, THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT AS PETE SAID IN OUR DISCUSSION EARLIER, THIS IS PHILOSOPHICAL.

IS IT NOW OR LATER?

IN SOME WAYS YOU CAN SAY THEY ARE BOTH RIGHT OR BOTH WRONG.

>> WELL, THE DEMOCRATS THE GOVERNOR ARGUES SEEM CONVINCED HAPPY DAYS WILL ALWAYS BE HERE WITH US.

HE WOULD LIKE TO BANK MORE OF TODAY'S LARGESS FOR FUTURE STATE MATCHES, FOR FEDERAL INFRASTRUCTURE PROJECTS WHEN YOU DON'T GET FEDERAL MONEY IF YOU DON'T PONY UP THE 20%.

THE GOVERNOR IS DETERMINED NOT TO LEAVE ANYTHING ON THE TABLE.

>> THE GOVERNOR HAS LONG TALKED ABOUT THIS IS ONE TIME MONEY THAT WON'T BE HERE AND WON'T BE SUSTAINABLE.

SO HOW DO YOU SUPPORT ALL THIS CHILD CARE INVESTMENT, HOW DO YOU SUPPORT MEDICARE, MEDICAID REIMBURSEMENT.

I THINK THAT'S A REAL POINT THAT THE GOVERNOR HS BEEN TRYING TO BRING HOME, THAT THE LEGISLATURE MIGHT FEEL DIFFERENTLY ABOUT.

>> HOUSE AND SENATE HAVE HAD VERY DIFFERENT POINTS OF VIEW ON THE TWO BIG NEW EXPANSIONS.

IN CHILD CARE AND IN UNIVERSAL PAID FAMILY LEAVE.

I'M WONDERING, PETE, THE HOUSE BUDGET MAKES BIG -- PUT A LOT OF MONEY ASIDE FOR BOTH UNIVERSAL PAID LEAVE AND CHILD CARE.

HOW ARE THE HOUSE AND SENATE LIKELY TO END UP ON THAT?

>> THAT IS THE OUTSTANDING QUESTION FOR THE NEXT FEW WEEKS.

WE HAD A SENSE GOING INTO THIS SESSION THAT THE HOUSE PRIORITY WAS GOING TO BE PAID AND MEDICAL LEAVE ALONG WITH CHILD CARE.

WE GOT A SENSE FROM SENATE LAWMAKERS WE HAVE ONLY HAD THE CAPACITY TO GO BIG ON ONE OF THESE THINGS T. THEY SAY WE HAVE BEEN HEARING FROM OUR CONSTITUENTS ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL, SINCE THE ELECTION THAT CHILD CARE IS THE THING THEY WANT US TO SOLVE.

THE SENATE BILL HAS ABOUT 120 MILLION IN NEW FUNDING ANNUALLY FOR CHILD CARE SUBSIDIES ALONE.

IF YOU TALK TO SOMEBODY LIKE CALEDONIA SENATOR JANE KITCHEL, WHO CHAIRS THE SENATE APPROPRIATIONS COMMITTEE, SHE SAYS AN INVESTMENT OF THAT SCOPE ON CHILD CARE REALLY LIMITS WHAT LAWMAKERS ARE GOING TO BE ABLE TO DO ON SOMETHING LIKE PAID FAMILY AND MEDICAL LEAVE.

A LOT OF FOLKS IN THE HOUSE THINK THIS IS THE MOMENT TO GO BIG, THAT YOU CAN DO BOTH, THAT VERMONTERS WANT THEM TO GO BIG, ARE WILLING TO TRADE LOSING SOME MONEY IN THE FORM OF A PAYROLL TAX FOR CHILD CARE SUBSIDIES, BEING ABLE TO TAKE 12 WEEKS OFF TO CARE FOR AN AILING LOVED ONE.

THESE ARE DIFFERENCES THEY HAVE TO HAMMER OUT OVER THE NEXT SIX TO EIGHT WEEKS.

IT'S GOING TO BE ONE OF THE MORE INTERESTING CONVERSATIONS TO FOLLOW.

>> THE HOUSE BUDGET RELIES ON ROUGHLY A HALF PERCENT PAYROLL TAX FOR EACH OF PAID FAMILY LEAVE AND CHILD CARE AS I UNDERSTAND IT.

FOR THE MOMENT, THE MONEY IS STILL POURING INTO MON PEELER.

THE ADMINISTRATION RELEASED NEW MONTHLY FIGURES FOR FEBRUARY THIS WEEK AND TAKE A LOOK.

YOU CAN WALK US THROUGH.

THAT IS NOT A MISPRINT UNDER THE CORPORATE TAX FOR THE MONTH.

BUT WHAT STABDZ OUT WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE BOTTOM LINE HERE IN GENERAL FUND, UP 25% FOR THE MONTH.

THAT MAKES IT A PRETTY GOOD MONTH BUT EVEN THROUGH THE FISCAL YEAR OF STARTING JULY 1 WE'RE STILL WELL AHEAD.

>> AND WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THOSE NUMBERS, WHAT THE EXPECTATIONS WERE, ECONOMISTS KEPT PUSHING UP THE NUMBERS TO THE POSITIVE END, SAYING WE DON'T REALLY BELIEVE IT, WE DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN GETTING BACK TO PHIL SCOTT'S DISCUSSION ON HOW THIS IS NOT GOING TO LAST, BUT IF YOU LOOK AT THE NUMBER ACROSS ALL THREE FINDS IT'S UP 15.4%, REALLY EXTRAORDINARY.

WE'RE IN A WEIRD PERIOD OF TIME BECAUSE TAX RETURNS ARE COMING IN, REFUNDS.

THE PERSONAL INCOME TAX YOU DON'T KNOW HOW IT'S GOING TO GO UNTIL WE GET TO APRIL, MAY, JUNE.

THESE ARE EXTRAORDINARY NUMBERS.

THE CORPORATE INCOME TAX WHICH CAN BE REALLY ALL OVER THE PLACE BUT THERE SEEMS TO BE SOME PROFIT TAKING AT THE MOMENT.

THAT'S DRIVEN UP THE PROFIT FOR THE CORPORATIONS AND THAT'S WHY THOSE NUMBERS.

THE NUMBERS ARE REALLY GOOD ACROSS THE BOARD.

SOME OF THE LIKE ROOMS AND MEALS AND SALES TAX MAYBE ARE NOT AS STRONG RELATIVELY.

REMEMBER WHAT ECONOMISTS ARE TRYING TO GET AT IS ZERO PERCENT SO THEY ARE NOT SHOWING A LOSS OR GAIN.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE NUMBERS ANYTHING IN THE PLUS SAID IS REALLY, REALLY HIGH AND AT THIS MOMENT WE TALKED ABOUT THE LEGISLATURE LIKE NO END IN SIGHT BUT WE KNOW THERE'S AN END IN SIGHT WE JUST DON'T KNOW WHEN.

>> IT'S TOUGH TO MAKE THE ARGUMENT IF YOU'RE PHIL SCOTT?

, HOWARD USED TO MAKE THE SAME ARGUMENT.

>> WE TALKED ABOUT THIS IN JANUARY, STEWART, ON THIS PROGRAM.

THEN THEY THOUGHT THE GRAVY TRAIN WOULD HAVE RUN OUT BY THEN.

HERE WE ARE MONTHS LATER IT STILL HAS NOT.

>> AT THE SAME TIME WE HAVE BANKS FAILING IN CALIFORNIA AND SOME -- >> WELL, THE FEDERAL RESERVE SEEMS TO BE RUNNING AROUND WITH ITS HEAD CUT OFF AT THIS POINT.

IT'S A LOT OF UNCERTAINTY.

AS LONG AS EMPLOYMENT IS STRONG, THE PERSONAL INCOME TAX WILL BE REALLY STRONG BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE GETTING A LOT MORE WAGES.

THAT'S GOING TO JUST FEED INTO THE SYSTEM.

>> WE TALKED ABOUT UNIVERSAL LEAVE, CHILD CARE, MEDICAID REIMBURSEMENT, WORKFORCE DEVELOPMENT.

BUT THE BIG ISSUE, THE TOWERING ISSUE THAT EVERYONE SEEMED TO AGREE ON WAS THE FACT THAT VERMONT IS IN A HOUSING CRISIS.

WE'RE TENS OF THOUSANDS OF UNITS SHORT IF WE'RE TO HAVE ANY SORT OF HEALTHY EQUILIBRIUM BETWEEN SUPPLY AND DEMAND.

THOSE ARE THE MARCHING ORDERS FOR MANY LAWMAKERS AT THE START OF THIS SESSION.

PETE, THE SENATE HAS STRUGGLED TO PASS WHAT WAS CALLED THE OMNIBUS HOUSING BILL OR HOME BILL, AND ON THURSDAY AND THEN AGAIN FRIDAY, YOU KNOW, WHAT'S CALLED THE THIRD RAIL OF VERMONT POLITICS, WEATHER AND HOW DRAMATICALLY TO SPEAK ACT 250 TO ENCOURAGE MORE HOUSING DEVELOPMENT AROUND OUR STATE.

WHERE DID THE SENATE WIND UP?

>> OH, MAN.

YOU KNOW, THEY WOUND UP IN A PLACE WHERE FOLKS ON BOTH SIDES OF THE ISSUE ARE FEELING REALLY UNSATISFIED.

IF YOU ASK SENATE PRESIDENT PRO TEM PHIL BARUTH HE INDICATED ON THE SENATE FLOOR THURSDAY THAT THAT MEANS WE HAVE DONE OUR JOB.

HE SAYS HE THINKS THEY HAVE ARRIVED AT A PLACE WHERE THEY HAVE ACT 250 OVERHAULS SUFFICIENT TO SPUR NEW CONSTRUCTION THAT WOULDN'T HAVE HAPPENED OTHERWISE.

BUT NOT SO MUCH THAT WE'RE GOING TO END UP 20 YEARS DOWN THE ROAD AND REALLY REGRET WHAT WE ALLOWED TO HAPPEN WITH THESE ACT 250 REVISIONS THIS SESSION.

THERE ARE PLENTY OF PEOPLE WHO WOULD DISAGREE WITH HIM HEARTILY OVER THAT.

GOVERNOR PHIL SCOTT, HIS HOUSING FOLKS THINK THE SENATE HASN'T GONE NEARLY FAR ENOUGH IN EXEMPTING CERTAIN PRIORITY PROJECTS FROM ACT 250 AND THERE ARE ENVIRONMENTAL WATCH DOGS WHO STILL HAVE CONCERNS OVER WHAT THESE PROPOSALS ARE GOING TO MEAN FOR PRIME SOILS ON AG LANDS, FOR EXAMPLE, OR DEVELOPMENTS IN PLACES THAT MAYBE ARE NOT IN DENSELY POPULATED DOWNTOWN.

A LOT STILL TO GO ON.

THIS LEGISLATION WILL HEAD TO THE HOUSE, AND THESE DEBATES OVER THE ROLE ACT 250 OUGHT TO PLAY OR NOT PLAY IN NEW HOUSING DEVELOPMENT ARE GOING TO CONTINUE.

>> THE LEAGUE OF CITIES AND TOWNS HAVE PUSHED HARD TO AMEND ACT 250 SUCH THAT A DEVELOPER COULD BUILD UP TO 25 UNITS IN A PROJECT INSTEAD OF NOW IF YOU BUILD MORE THAN NINE YOU HAVE TO APPLY FOR A PERMIT.

THAT WAS TAKEN OUT ON FRIDAY.

AND IT WAS INTERESTING, THE SENIOR DEMOCRAT, THE CHAIR OF THE FINANCE COMMITTEE ANN CUMMINGS, A REALTOR BY TRADE, ROSE AND SPOKE OFF THE CUFF AND SHE SAID THIS ACT 250 THING HAS GIVEN HER MORE ANGST THAN ANY OTHER ISSUE IN THE HISTORY OF HER 25-YEAR CAREER, DWARFING CIVIL UNIONS.

SHE SAYS WE HAVE A CRISIS, WE'RE NOT DOING MUCH TO SOLVE THE CRISIS.

THE NUMBER ONE CRISIS IS WHETHER WE'RE GOING TO BE A STATE OR A THEME PARK.

FOR ANN CUMMINGS, PETER, THAT STRUCK ME.

>> I TALKED TO A DEVELOPER THIS WEEK IN BENNINGTON, A RENTAL HOUSING DEVELOPER.

THEY WAS TELLING ME ABOUT THIS PROJECT DOWNTOWN BENNINGTON WHERE HIS COMPANY WANTED TO TAKE AN EXISTING TWO UNIT HOME, OLD HOME, AND TURN IT INTO A FOUR UNIT HOME.

THE ISSUE HE SAID WAS THAT UNDER CURRENT ACT 250 REGULATIONS BECAUSE THIS WOULD BE THE 11th UNIT THAT THEY FILL WITHIN A FIVE MILE RADIUS WITHIN FIVE YEARS IT SUDDENLY TRIGGERS ACT 250 JURISDICTION AND HE SAID HE DOES NOT HAVE THE CAPACITY TO UNDERTAKE THE RISK OR THE COMPLEX BUREAUCRATIC STUFF TO DO THAT.

ANN CUMMINGS AND OTHERS ARE HEARING FROM PEOPLE WHO SAY ACT 250 IS THE REASON WE'RE NOT GETTING MORE UNITS ONLINE AND FAST, AND THEY HAVE COME TO THE CONCLUSION THIS IS SOMETHING THE LEGISLATURE HAS TO GO AFTER IN A MORE AGGRESSIVE WAY THAN THEY HAVE BEEN WILLING TO IN THE PAST.

>> YOU'VE BEEN AROUND FOR A LOT OF THESE FIGHTS OVER THE YEARS.

>> LOTS OF FIGHTS.

ACT 250 IN THE MID '90s, SEEN AS THE BIGGEST IMPEDIMENT TO ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT.

THERE WERE BIG BATTLES IN THE SENATE PARTICULARLY OVER HOWARD DEAN'S ENVIRONMENTAL VORTEX.

FAST FORWARD IT'S SURPRISING BECAUSE ANN CUMMINGS, SENATOR CUMMINGS IS NOT ONE PRONE TO HYPERBOLE.

SO TO HEAR HER COME OUT THAT STRONGLY AND TALK ABOUT THE COMPARISONS TO THE CIVIL UNIONS IN 2000, THAT'S REALLY STRONG.

SHE'S NOT REALLY STRONG TO GO OUT THERE LIKE THAT.

SHE IS ALSO REPRESENTING WASHINGTON COUNTY SO SHE'S SEEING WHAT'S HAPPENING ON THE GROUND THERE, WHERE HOUSING IS SO DIFFICULT.

>> WELL, I THINK HER POINT WAS THE STATE DOESN'T PROVIDE HOUSING TO ITS YOUNG PEOPLE IS EXCEPTING THEM AWAY.

OR IS GOING TO BE UNABLE TO ATTRACT NEW WORKERS TO FILL WHAT, 24,000 VACANT JOBS?

>> A LITTLE LESS BUT YEAH.

MARK COLLINS SAYS WE NEED UP TO 40,000 NEW UNS ITS.

>> PETE, IS THERE ANY CHANCE THE HOUSE COULD PUT BACK INTO THE BILL RELAXING OF SOME OF THE ACT 250 PUT IN THEN THE SENATE TOOK BACK OUT THEIR.

>> I THINK YOU'LL SEE MEMBERS OF THE RURAL CAUCUS UNITE AND COALESCE AROUND SOME KIND OF GRANT ACT 250 COMPROMISE THAT MIGHT INCLUDE SOMETHING LIKE AN EXPANSION OF THE 1055 RULE.

IT'S GOING TO BE A DELICATE DANCE, RIGHT?

THERE ARE HOUSE LAWMAKERS THAT DON'T WANT TO TOUCH ACT 250 UNLESS IT'S PART OF A MOREL GENT AND SOPHISTICATED SYSTEMIC OVERHAUL OF THIS 50-YEAR-OLD LAND USE LAW.

THEY DON'T THINK YOU CAN ATTACK IT PROVISION BY PROVISION AND GET THE RESULTS THAT ARE GOOD FOR VERMONT.

BUT THERE IS ENORMOUS PRESSURE IN COMMUNITIES TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT HOUSING, A LOT OF LEGISLATORS HAVE IDENTIFIED IT AS THE CULPRIT.

SO IT'S GOING TO DEFINITELY BE A LIVE ISSUE INTO THE SECOND HALF OF THE SESSION.

>> ONE OF THE OTHER THINGS THAT WAS MENTIONED AT THE GOVERNOR'S PRESS CONFERENCE HALF THE HOMES SOLD IN VERMONT ARE OVER HALF A MILLION DOLLARS.

THE AVERAGE IS ALMOST 400,000.

THE OTHER THING THAT IS VERMONT IS IN THE TOP 20 OF THE MOST EXPENSIVE GROWTH IN HOUSING AND THE BURLINGTON AREA IS NUMBER 17 IN THE COUNTRY.

IT'S THE HIGHEST GROWING HOUSING VALUE MARKET IN THE COUNTRY, IN THE EASTERN TIME ZONE.

THAT'S WHAT VERMONT IS FACING NOW IS EXTRAORDINARY HOUSING VALUE INCREASES AT THE SAME TIME THERE'S ALMOST NO VACANCY, WHICH OF COURSE FEEDS INTO EACH OTHER, THE WHOLE SUPPLY AND DEMAND THING WHICH ADVOCATES ARE PUSHING FOR.

>> WE'LL OBVIOUSLY BE FOLLOWING THIS AS IT MOVES ON TO THE HOUSE.

WE WANT TO GET YOU UP TO DATE ON OTHER STUFF MOVING IN MONTPELIER.

WE SAID OFF THE TOP DIANE, THE 50-YEAR-OLD BOTTLE BILL OR THE BOTTLE DEPOSIT LAW WHICH HAS BEEN LAWMAKERS HAVE TRIED TO EXPAND OVER THE YEARS, IT'S LARGELY THE SAME AS IT WAS IN THE '70s.

THIS WEEK THE HOUSE GAVE OVERWHELMING APPROVAL TO A BILL TO EXPAND IT.

>> THE HOUSE BILL WOULD EXPAND IT HAS TRADITIONALLY ONLY BEEN CARBONATED BEVERAGES, LIMITED AT THAT.

THIS TIME IT WOULD EXPAND THE FIVE CENTS TO INCLUDE WATER AND SPORTS BEVERAGE DRINKS, WINE BOLTSES AND I THINK WINE WAS 15% DEPOSIT.

15 CENT DEPOSIT.

SO IT'S A NEW REVENUE STREAM FOR SOME.

I THINK THERE'S BEEN A LITTLE BIT OF PUSH-BACK FROM SOME IN THE RECYCLING INDUSTRY WHO FEEL THAT TAKES A LOT OF RECYCLING PRODUCTS OUT OF THAT STREAM.

THAT WAS A LITTLE BIT OF PUSH BACK THERE BUT IT'S BEEN A LONG TIME COMING TO MAKE CHANGES.

WE'RE STILL ONLY AT 5 CENTS.

THERE'S BEEN TALK OVER THE YEARS OF BUMPING UP IT TO 10 CENTS BUT IT'S STILL 5.

>> THE LEGISLATURE IS ALSO ADVANCING A BAN ON FLAVORED TOBACCO AND VAPING PRODUCTS.

THAT IS SOMETHING THAT UNLIKE THE BOTTLE DEPOSIT EXPANSION WAS SOMETHING THAT GOVERNOR SCOTT INDICATED THIS WEEK HE MIGHT BE ABLE TO SUPPORT.

LET'S LISTEN TO ONE OF THE ADVOCATES FOR THIS BAN ON FLAVORED TOBACCO.

>> WHAT WE SEE 86% OF YOUTH AGE 12 TO 25 ARE USING FLAVORED TOBACCO PRODUCTS.

SO THAT TOLD US THAT WE NEED TO CONTINUE TO EDUCATE ON HOW FLAVORS ENTICE YOUTH TO START.

>> SO THE BAN MOVES OUT OF THE SENATE ON TO THE HOUSE WHERE WE WILL -- I DON'T HAVE ANY SENSE ABOUT ITS FORTUNES, BUT ANYTHING ELSE, PETE, YOU WANT TO MENTION AFTER AS WE SAID A VERY BUSY WEEK AT THE CAPITOL?

>> I'LL NOTE THAT A BILL THAT GOT A LOT OF ATTENTION EARLIER IN THE YEAR RELATED TO PUBLIC SAFETY PASSED THE SENATE THIS WEEK.

THIS BILL IS NOTABLE FOR SOME OF THE PROVISIONS IT HAD IN IT RELATED TO RESTRICTIONS ON GUN OWNERSHIP.

THE BILL WILL MIRROR IN STATE LAW THE FEDERAL BAN ON STRAW PURCHASES.

IT ALSO CREATES NEW STATE PENALTIES FOR DEFACING SERIAL NUMBERS ON GUNS.

ONE THING IT DOES NOT INCLUDE THAT IT ORPLG NEAL DID WAS AN OUT RIGHT BAN ON PEOPLE UNDER THE AGE OF 21 PURCHASES SEMI-AUTOMATIC WEAPONS.

WHAT'S NOTE WORE THEY TO ME IS THAT THE REASON THEY DROPPED THAT PROVISION IS BECAUSE THEY ARE CONCERNED IN THE WAKE OF A U.S. SUPREME COURT RULING LAST YEAR THAT UP ENDED PRECEDENT AROUND WHAT CONSTITUTES AN UNDUE INFRINGEMENT ON THE RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS THEY ARE NOT SURE THAT WILL SURVIVE A CONSTITUTIONAL CHALLENGE SO THEY GOT RID OF T. INTERESTING TO SEE VERMONT LAWMAKERS ALREADY PULLING BACK A LITTLE BIT ON GUN MEASURES BASED ON THE THREAT OF FUTURE LITIGATION.

>> IN THE TIME WE HAVE LEFT WE SHOULD ACKNOWLEDGE THE BIG NATIONAL STORY, THE INDICTMENT OF FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP BY A GRAND JURY IN NEW YORK LATE THURSDAY.

SEEMS EVERYONE IN WASHINGTON HAS HAD SOMETHING TO SAY ABOUT THIS.

WE HEARD THURSDAY NIGHT FROM U.S.

SENATOR PETER WELCH WHO SAID THE LAW IS THE LAW AND NOBODY INCLUDING DONALD TRUMP IS ABOVE IT WHILE WE AWAIT MORE INFORMATION FROM THE D.A.

'S OFFICE WE SHOULD LET THE LEGAL PROCESS WORK ITS WILL.

WE DID NOT HEAR FROM SENATOR BERNIE SANDERS AT LEAST NOT AS OF THIS TAPING.

TAPING.

WONDER WHY.

>> WELL, I THINK THAT OFFICIAL COMMENT WAS THAT HE WAS TRAVELING LAST NIGHT AND NOT AVAILABLE TO DISCUSS IT, BUT IT IS A LITTLE UNUSUAL FOR ONE MEMBER OF A DELEGATION NOT TO WEIGH IN IN SUCH A BIG ISSUE, WHICH OF COURSE IS GOING TO PROMPT SPECULATION ABOUT WHETHER HE WILL JUMP INTO THE RACE AGAIN FOR PRESIDENT.

RIGHT?

WE'LL SEE.

>> WE WILL SEE.

A REALLY UNUSUAL THING HAPPENED DOWN IN MIDDLEBURY THE OTHER DAY.

FORMER GOVERNOR JIM DOUGLAS, WHO HAS WORKED FOR MIDDLEBURY COLLEGE IN RECENT YEARS, AND GRADUATED FROM IT, FILED SUIT AGAINST THE SCHOOL.

THE ISSUE IS THE NAMING OF THE MIDDLEBURY CHAPEL, THE MEAD MEMORIAL CHAPEL ON CAMPUS.

MIDDLEBURY WANTS TO STRIP THE WORD MEAD FROM THE NAME OF THAT FACILITY.

>> IT ESSENTIALLY CALLED GOVERNOR MEAD RACIST.

THAT'S FALSE.

HE WAS A LOYAL ALUMNUS, VERY GENEROUS TO THE COLLEGE, QUITE PROGRESSIVE FOR HIS ERA.

HE "SUPPORTED" WOMEN SUFFRAGE, TOUGHER CHILD LABOR LAWS, CAMPAIGN FINANCE DISCLOSURE, CLEAN TPH-FRG THROUGH GREATER USE OF HOOD RHO ELECTRIC POWER.

HE DID A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF WORK FOR THE PEOPLE OF VERMONT AND TO HAVE HIS REPUTATION SULLIED BECAUSE OF A COUPLE OF REMARKS HE MADE IN 1912 IS TOTALLY UNFAIR.

>> COUPLE OF REMARKS IN 1912.

>> THEY WERE PRETTY POTENT REMARKS AT HIS FAREWELL SPEECH IN 1912 ABOUT THE NEED TO RID VERMONT OF THE DEGENERATES, HE LISTED A LOT OF CATEGORIES THAT FELL UNDER THAT LISTING.

I THINK WHAT'S INTERESTING HERE, THE NAME IS ALREADY OFF THE CHAPEL.

THIS IS A BREACH OF CONTRACT SUIT IN THE COURTS.

ALTHOUGH HE'S USED THE TERM CANCEL CULTURE AND THAT KIND OF THING TO DESCRIBE AND SAY THAT THE MIDDLEBURY ADMINISTRATION WAS OUT OF LINE IN TAKING THE NAME DOWN I THINK IT'S GOING TO COME DOWN OVER THE BASIC LEGAL ARPLT OVER THE INTENT OF MEAD WAS WHEN HE HANDED OVER $60,000 TO BUILD THE CHAPEL, AKIN TO 2 MILLION IN TODAY'S MONEY.

>> GREAT POINT.

GREAT DISCUSSION.

THANK YOU ALL.

TIM MCQUISTON FROM VERMONT BUSINESS MAGAZINE, DIANE DERBY FROM VTDIGGER AND PETE HIRSCHFELD FROM VERMONT PUBLIC.

I'M STEWART LEDBETTER.

COME BACK APPEARED SEE US RIGHT HERE NEXT FRIDAY NIGHT.