>> PAUL AV, THANKS.

LISA LERER, THANKS SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

YOU REPORTED ALL ACROSS IDAHO RECENTLY FOR A PIECE TITLED "WHEN IDAHO BANNED ABORTION OB-GYNs FLED.

THE DOCTORS WHO STAYED ARE CRACKING. "

WHAT DID YOU FIND AND WHY DID YOU WANT TO DO THIS STORY?

>> WELL, I DID A BOOK ON THE FALL OF ROE V. WADE, AND I WAS INTERESTED ON SORT OF FOLLOWING UP ON THAT REPORTING AND SEE WHAT THE IMPACT WAS OF THESE LAWS AS I'M SURE MANY OF YOUR VIEWERS KNOW ABOUT 20 STATES IN THE UNITED STATES NOW BAN ABORTION AT A STANDARD EARLIER THAN WHAT WAS SET IN ROE V. WADE, WHICH WAS FETAL VIABILITY.

BUT I WONDERED.

THESE LAWS WERE NOT REALLY WRITTEN OFTEN WITH A SENSE OF SCIENCE OR WOMEN'S HEALTH OR, YOU KNOW, MEDICAL ADVISORIES.

AND SO I WAS CURIOUS WHAT THE IMPACT WERE OF THESE BANS BEYOND JUST ABORTION AND ABORTION RIGHTS.

AND SO I WENT TO IDAHO BECAUSE WHAT HAPPENED IN IDAHO SINCE THEY HAD PASSED THEIR BAN IN 2022 ABOUT A THIRD OF THE OB-GYNs IN THAT STATE HAD LEFT OR STOPPED PRACTICING OR RETIRED.

>> YOU WRITE THAT BY BANNING AABORTION IDAHO HAS BECOME A MORE DANGEROUS PLACE TO GIVE BIRTH.

WHAT WAS THE INTENTION OF THE LAW VERSUS THE ACTUAL CONSEQUENCE?

>> WELL, THE INTENTION OF THE LAW WAS OF COURSE TO BAN ABORTION.

VERY FEW --NONE OF THE DOCTORS I SPOKE TO FOR MY PIECE WERE DOING ELECTIVE ABORTIONS BEFORE THE LAW.

THEY WERE ONLY DOING ABORTIONS THAT WERE MEDICALLY INDICATED, YOU KNOW, THAT SOMEONE WAS --THEIR LIFE WAS GOING TO BE AT MAJOR RISK OR THEIR FUTURE FERTILITY OR THEY'D HAVE SEVERE HEALTH CONSEQUENCES IF THEY CARRIED THAT PREGNANCY TO TERM.

THERE WAS A PLANNED PARENTHOOD IN BOISE THAT WAS DOING SORT OF ELECTIVE ABORTIONS.

BUT THEY WERE PRETTY MUCH THE ONLY ONES, WITH MAYBE A FEW OTHER EXCEPTIONS.

SO THE INTENTION WAS AS ALL THESE LAWS INTEND TO DO, TO BAN ABORTION.

I JUST THINK ABORTION EXISTS AS AN ISSUE IN THIS SORT OF MORASS OF MORALITY AND RELIGION AND POLITICS AND IT'S BECOME SORT OF DISCONNECTED FROM THE ACTUAL THING THAT IT'S ABOUT, WHICH IS THAT ABORTION IS A MEDICAL PROCEDURE.

WHATEVER YOUR FEELINGS ABOUT IT, IT IS THAT.

IT IS SOMETHING THAT INVOLVES MEDICATION OR SURGERY.

AND I THINK THAT DISCONNECT IS WHAT LED TO THIS OUTCOME IN IDAHO.

>> YOU KNOW, WHAT'S INTERESTING IS YOU START THE STORY OUT NOT WITH A STORY SPECIFICALLY ABOUT ABORTION BUT ABOUT A WOMAN WHO WAS HEMORRHAGING AND THE DOCTORS CALLED IN AND SHE'S KIND OF COMING BACK FROM VACATION.

WHAT DID THAT SCENE REVEAL TO YOU AND WHAT DID YOU WANT OUR READERS TO KNOW ABOUT HOW HEALTH CARE FOR WOMEN OVERALL HAS CHANGED?

>> WELL, IT'S AN EXCELLENT POINT.

CONSERVATIVE LAWMAKERS IN IDAHO WANTED TO BAN ABORTION, AND THAT'S WHAT THEY DID.

BUT THE EFFECTS OF THAT BAN, IN PART BECAUSE IDAHO CRIMINALIZED ANY DOCTOR WHO PERFORMS AN ABORTION OR IS SUSPECTED OF PERFORMING AN ABORTION, CAN FACE, YOU KNOW, JAIL TIME OR CIVIL PENALTIES.

SO AS A RESULT MANY DOCTORS DECIDED THAT THEY DIDN'T WANT TO PRACTICE IN IDAHO ANYMORE, THAT THE STAKES WERE TOO HIGH.

AND SO THE IMPACT OF THAT IS NOT JUST ON ABORTION, WHICH REMAINS, YOU KNOW, DECENTLY RARE FOR MOST WOMEN WHO ARE EAGER TO HAVE CHILDREN.

BUT ON WOMEN'S HEALTH CARE, ON GIVING BIRTH.

THE REASON I STARTED WITH THAT STORY IS FIRST OF ALL IT WAS VERY MOVING AND I THINK IT GAVE A REALLY GOOD GLIMPSE INTO WHAT WOMEN'S HEALTH CARE LOOKS LIKE IN IDAHO NOW AND HOW THE DOCTORS HAVE BEEN CONSTRAINED BY THE EXODUS OF OB-GYNs FROM THAT STATE.

>> AND YOU POINT OUT HOW COMMON HEMORRHAGING IS, SOMETHING I WASN'T AWARE OF.

>> YEAH, HEMORRHAGING IS ONE OF THE MOST COMMON SEVERE IMPACTS OF CHILDBIRTH.

IT'S SOMETHING THAT CAN HAPPEN HOURS AFTER CHILD BIRG.

AND IT CAN BE REALLY LIFE-THREATENING.

AND THE COURSE OF TREATMENT FOR THAT IS FIRST MEDICATION, SOME MINOR SURGICAL INTERVENTIONS AND THEN IF THE BLEEDING FROM THE UTERUS CAN'T BE STOPPED YOU HAVE TO REMOVE THE UTERUS.

YOU HAVE TO HAVE A HYSTERECTOMY.

WHICH IS A REALLY COMMON PROCEDURE.

IT'S ONE OF THE MOST COMMON SURGERIES IN THE COUNTRY.

BUT IT'S SOMETHING THAT REALLY OB- GYNs ARE TRAINED SPECIFICALLY TO DO.

SO IF THERE'S NO OB-GYN AVAILABLE, WHICH IN MANY COUNTIES IN IDAHO THERE IS NOT, YOU'RE REALLY PATCHING TOGETHER THAT SURGERY EITHER WITH GENERAL SURGEONS OR FAMILY DOCTORS OR YOU'RE GETTING ON A HELICOPTER IF THAT'S POSSIBLE AND FLYING OUT OF STATE.

>> YOU REPORTED THAT ONE THIRD OF THE STATE'S OB-GYN s HAVE STOPPED PRACTICING OBSTETRICS, LEFT THE STATE, CLOSED PRACTICES OR RETIRED SINCE THIS TOTAL BAN, NEAR TOTAL BAN TOOK EFFECT IN '22.

CAN YOU GIVE US AN IDEA OF THE SCALE OF THAT LOSS?

>> RIGHT.

I THINK THE THING TO THINK ABOUT HERE --WELL, FIRST OF ALL, I THINK IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO PUT THIS IN CONCRETE TERMS FOR THE PATIENTS RATHER THAN IN TERMS OF BROAD NUMBERS AND, YOU KNOW, THE NUMBER OF OB-GYNs HER CAPITA OF PATIENTS, WHICH IS QUITE --ONE OF THE WORST IN THE COUNTRY IN IDAHO.

WHAT IT MEANS IS THAT IF YOU MEET YOUR ANNUAL, YOU KNOW, OB-GYN APPOINTMENT MAYBE THAT'S A YEAR WAIT, MAYBE THAT'S NINE MONTHS.

DOCTORS THERE TOLD ME.

IF YOU NEED --IF YOU'RE DELIVERING MOST PLACES IN IDAHO YOU'RE GETTING SPECIAL INSURANCE FOR FLIGHTS BECAUSE IF THERE'S A COMPLICATION THAT THEY CAN'T TREAT IN THE STATE OR THE OB-GYN IS NOT AVAILABLE BECAUSE THEY HAVE SO MANY PATIENTS TO CARE FOR YOU'RE LIKELY BEING PUT ON A HELICOPTER AND FLOWN OUT OF STATE TO WASHINGTON.

SO IN REAL ARE --THERE'S REAL PRACTICAL IMPLICATIONS FOR PATIENTS.

BUT I ALSO THINK IT AMOUNTS TO WHAT PUBLIC HEALTH EXPERTS TOLD ME IS IT AMOUNTS TO A GENERATIONAL LOSS.

IF YOU ARE ONE OF THESE OB- GYNs WHO LEFT THE STATE, SAY, YOU MOVED TO WASHINGTON OR MINNESOTA OR WHEREVER YOU CHOSE TO MOVE, JUST BECAUSE THE LAW CHANGES DOES NOT MEAN YOU'RE NECESSARILY GOING TO UPROOT YOUR ENTIRE LIFE AND MOVE BACK.

SO IT MAKES IT MORE DIFFICULT FOR IDAHO TO RECRUIT NEW OB-GYN TOZ COME INTO THE STATE AND PRACTICE BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE NOT EAGER TO GO TO A STATE WHERE THEY KNOW THEY COULD FACE CRIMINAL OR CIVIL PENALTIES.

AND IT ALSO MEANS THAT THE PEOPLE WHO LEFT, IT'S VERY HARD IF NOT IMPOSSIBLE TO GET THEM BACK.

SO THIS IS JUST A LONG-TERM HEALTH CARE ISSUE THAT THE STATE IS GOING TO HAVE TO DEAL WITH.

>> YOU ALSO POINT OUT THAT ONLY ABOUT FIVE FULL-TIME MATERNAL FETAL MEDICINE SPECIALISTS REMAINED FOR THE HIGHEST- RISK PREGNANCIES.

SO GIVE US AN IDEA OF WHAT'S THAT SHORTAGE MEAN FOR PATIENTS WHO ARE FACING THESE CRISES?

>> I MEAN, WHAT IT MEANS IS THAT TRAVELING LONG DISTANCES FOR CARE HAS BECOME VERY ROUTINEIZED IN IDAHO.

I WAS VERY STRUCK BY THE NUMBER OF PATIENTS WHO ARE TRAVELING TWO HOURS EACH WAY FOR APPOINTMENTS, WHO ARE GOING TO SEE SPECIALISTS AND DRIVING ACROSS STATE LINES TO DO SO.

THAT HAS JUST BECOME A STANDARD PART IN MANY CASES OF GIVING BIRTH IF THAT BIRTH IS COMPLICATED IN ANY WAY.

IT CAN BE VERY, VERY DIFFICULT TO GET THE MATERNAL CARE THAT WOMEN NEED.

>> ONE OF THE STORIES YOU REVEAL IN THIS ARTICLE IS THE STORY OF A WOMAN WHO HAD A WANTED PREGNANCY AND LEARNED IN THE SECOND TRIMESTER THAT THE FETUS HAD DIED.

TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT HOW THE DOCTORS WERE TRYING TO PROVIDE MISCARRIAGE CARE, NOT AN ELECTIVE ABORTION, BUT WHAT HAPPENS?

>> SO THE STANDARD CARE IN THAT SITUATION IN THE SECOND TERM FETAL DEMISE, WHICH IS FAIRLY UNUSUAL IS FIRST TO HAVE A PROCEDURE KNOWN AS A DME, WHICH WAS NOT POSSIBLE TO GET IN IDAHO, IN THIS PART OF IDAHO BECAUSE NO ONE WAS CERTIFIED TO DO THAT.

THE SECOND IS TO USE A COMBINATION OF TWO MEDICATIONS, MIFEPRISTONE AND MIFFEPROSTOL.

MIFI AS IT'S KNOWN HAS BEEN BANNED IN THE STATE OF IDAHO BUT THERE IS A CARVEOUT FOR THIS SPECIFIC CASE IN TERMS OF MISCARRIAGE CARE.

THIS IS A CASE WHERE THE FETUS HAS NO HEARTBEAT AND IT'S JUST A WOMAN --INDUCING LABOR SO THE WOMAN GIVES BIRTH TO THIS DEAD FEETUS AND DOESN'T GET AN INFECTION FROM HAVING --OR FACE MORE SERIOUS CONSEQUENCES FOR NOT EXPELLING THE FETUS.

IT WAS IMPOSSIBLE FOR THE DOCTOR TO FIND THAT MEDICATION ANYWHERE IN IDAHO WHERE THEY WERE.

IT WAS IMPOSSIBLE TO FIND IT ON THE BORDER PHARMACIES WITH WASHINGTON.

THE RISK OF CARRYING THAT MEDICATION FEELS TOO GREAT FOR THE PHARMACISTS, SO THEY'RE NOT CARRYING IT.

SO AS A RESULT THE PATIENT HAD TO TAKE ONLY THE ONE MEDICATION, WHICH DELAYED THE TIME OF HER INDUCTION, THE TIME UNTIL SHE WENT INTO LABOR TO ABOUT TWO DAYS.

SO SHE SAT IN THE HOSPITAL ROOM OBVIOUSLY VERY DISTRAUGHT FOR TWO DAYS WAITING TO DELIVER HER WANTED DEAD PREGNANCY, AND IT WAS REALLY I THINK QUITE STRESSFUL NOT ONLY FOR THE PATIENT BUT FOR THE DOCTOR, WHO NOW WHAT THE STANDARD OF CARE WAS IN THIS SITUATION AND SIMPLY WAS UNABLE TO OBTAIN IT.

AND THAT'S THE KIND OF DIFFICULT SITUATION THAT DOCTORS FIND THEMSELVES IN.

AND IT'S VERY DRAINING I THINK EMOTIONALLY.

DOCTORS DON'T GO INTO MEDICINE BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT TO HELP PEOPLE.

THEY GO BECAUSE THEY WANT TO HELP PEOPLE, BECAUSE THEY WANT TO DELIVER THE BEST STANDARD OF CARE.

AND TO BE LIMITED BY THE LEGAL REGIME ON WHAT YOU CAN DO I THINK IS VERY HARD ON MANY OF THEM.

>> YEAH.

TELL ME A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THESE --THE BORDER PHARMACIES AND WHY AREN'T THEY STOCKING IT?

IF THEY KNOW THAT IT'S --NORMAL MARKET FORCES WOULD SAY SUPPLY AND DEMAND SHOULD TAKE OVER.

IF SOMETHING'S NOT AVAILABLE ON THIS SIDE OF THE BORDER AND YOU KNOW CUSTOMERS ARE GOING TO COME TO YOU, WHY NOT STOCK IT?

>> I THINK THERE'S JUST WHAT PHYSICIANS AND PUBLIC HEALTH EXPERTS HAVE TOLD ME IS THERE'S REALLY A CLIMATE OF FEAR IN IDAHO, THAT PEOPLE ARE REALLY WORRIED ABOUT SPEAKING OUT ABOUT THESE LAWS, ABOUT RUNNING AFOUL ON THESE LAWS.

IN PART THE WAY THE LAW WORKS IS SORT OF A BOUNTY SYSTEM WHERE ANYONE CAN FILE A LAWSUIT.

SO YOU COULD HAVE A NURSE IN THE HOSPITAL WHO DISAGREES WITH WHAT THE DOCTOR DID OR THINKS THERE WAS A HEARTBEAT WHEN MAYBE THERE WASN'T A HEARTBEAT.

THEY CAN FILE A LAWSUIT.

SO I THINK DOCTORS AND PEOPLE WORKING IN HEALTH CARE FEEL REALLY VULNERABLE.

>> AND THEN THE PHARMACIES, IF THEY'RE, SAY, FOR EXAMPLE IN AN ADJACENT STATE, WASHINGTON OR MONTANA, CAN THEY BE SOWED IF THIS MEDICATION IS KIND OF TAKEN ACROSS STATE LINES?

>> YOU KNOW, I'M NOT SURE THAT A PHARMACY IN WASHINGTON CAN BE SUED.

BUT NO ONE WANTS TO TEST THE LAW.

RIGHT?

I THINK IT'S A SITUATION WHERE PEOPLE FEEL THEY'RE BETTER OFF BEING CAUTIOUS THAN RISKING CONSEQUENCES IN THIS LAW THAT HASN'T REALLY BEEN TESTED.

NO ONE HAS BEEN PROSECUTED YET.

NO DOCTOR HAS BEEN PROSECUTED UNDER THIS LAW.

THAT DOESN'T MEAN PEOPLE AREN'T WORRIED ABOUT IT.

>> YEAH.

SO WHAT KIND OF WORKAROUNDS ARE THE PHYSICIANS WHO WERE EVIDENT WILL BEHIND TRYING TO DO?

BECAUSE AS YOUR REPORTING POINTS OUT THERE'S JUST NOT ENOUGH OF THEM.

>> WELL, THEY'RE TRYING TO PACK APPOINTMENTS IN WHERE THEY CAN AND SORT OF --ONE HOSPITAL ADMINISTRATOR - - SORRY, ONE ADMINISTRATOR FOR AN OFFICE DESCRIBES THEIR WORK AS BEING LIKE IN A M. A. S. H. UNIT WHICH OF COURSE IS THE MILITARY MEDICAL UNITS IN TERMS OF TRIAGING PATIENTS AND GETTING THE MOST URGENT APPOINTMENTS.

THE HOSPITALS ARE BRINGING IN WHEN THEY CAN TEMPORARY DOCTORS, KIND OF TRAVELING DOCTORS THAT WILL FILL IN AND GIVE A LITTLE RELIEF, PARTICULARLY ON 24-HOUR SHIFTS.

I THINK FAMILY DOCTORS WITH SPECIALTIES IN OBSTETRICS ARE COMING IN AND HELPING.

IN A LOT OF CASES THEY'RE TAKING ON MORE OF THE PATIENT LOAD.

BUT THEY'RE LIMITED IN WHAT THEY CAN DO.

THEY'RE NOT TRAINED, FOR EXAMPLE, IN DOING A HYSTERECTOMY.

SO THEY FEEL PRETTY VULNERABLE IF THEY DON'T HAVE SUPPORT FROM O. B. s. SO I THINK THE DOCTORS ARE TRYING TO FIND WAYS TO DELIVER THE BEST CARE.

HOSPITAL ADMINISTRATORS HAVE SAID THEY'RE PUTTING MORE PEOPLE ON HELICOPTERS MORE OFTEN TO SEND THEM OUT OF THE STATE WHEN A BIRTH IS SOMETHING THEY CAN'T MANAGE.

BUT IT'S DIFFICULT AND IT'S PLACING A LOT OF STRESS ON HOSPITALS AND ON DOCTORS.

>> SO IS SOME OF THIS STRESS BECAUSE OF THE LEGAL UNCERTAINTY?

OR BECAUSE OF THEIR OWN SKILLS SAYING I DON'T DO MANY OF THESE, I DON'T WANT TO DO THIS AND DO IT WRONG OR I WOULD DO IT BUT I DON'T KNOW IF I'M GOING TO GET THROWN IN JAIL FOR IT?

>> WELL, I THINK THERE'S TWO ISSUES GOING ON HERE.

I THINK THE REASON A THIRD OF THE O. B. s RETIRED OR LEFT THE STATE ARE STILL PRACTICING WAS BECAUSE OF IN MANY CASES THE LEGAL UNCERTAINTY, THAT PEOPLE DIDN'T WANT TO BE VULNERABLE TO RUNNING AFOUL OF THE LAW.

AND THEN I THINK THE PEOPLE WHO REMAINED, THEY'RE JUST DOING THE BEST THEY CAN.

AND I THINK PEOPLE --I THINK DOCTORS, PARTICULARLY FAMILY DOCTORS ARE REALLY HESITANT TO TAKE ON A SURGERY THEY DON'T FEEL TRAINED IN DOING.

AND FRANKLY I DON'T THINK ANY PATIENT WOULD WANT TO HAVE A DOCTOR WHO'S SAYING I'M HESITANT ABOUT OPERATING ON YOU BECAUSE I DON'T HAVE THE TRAINING HERE.

AND THAT OF COURSE COULD OPEN THEM UP TO OTHER KINDS OF MALPRACTICE LIABILITY LAWSUITS.

I THINK SOME OF THIS IS LEGAL RISK AND SOME OF IT IS TRYING TO MAINTAIN THE BEST STANDARD OF CARE FOR THEIR PATIENTS.

>> YEAH.

RIGHT NOW WE'RE HAVING THIS CONVERSATION RIGHT BEFORE A MIDTERM ELECTION AND IDAHO VOTERS ARE GOING TO BE CONSIDERING A BALLOT MEASURE THAT WOULD RESTORE ABORTION RIGHTS UP TO FETAL VIABILITY.

NOW, IF IT PASSES WHAT COULD IT CHANGE IMMEDIATELY AND WHAT CAN'T BE CHANGED?

>> SO IF IT PASSES IT WOULD RESTORE THE STANDARD SET IN ROE, WHICH IS THAT ABORTION REMAINS LEGAL UNTIL FETAL VIABILITY, WHICH IS NOW ABOUT 24, 25-ISH WEEKS.

BECAUSE OF ADVANCES IN THE NICU AND THINGS LIKE THAT, MKZ MEDICAL ADVANCES.

THE ISSUE IS THE REPUBLICAN LEGISLATURE CAN OVERTURN THAT, IT'S NOT A CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT.

SO THEY CAN CHOOSE EVEN IF IT PASSES TO DECIDE IT'S NOT GOING TO STAND.

AND THEN IN TERMS OF THE OB-GYN EXODUS, YOU KNOW, IT'S FOR THE REASONS WE TALKED ABOUT.

PEOPLE ARE NOT NECESSARILY UPROOTING THEIR LIFE BECAUSE THE LAW HAS CHANGED.

RIGHT?

I THINK ONCE YOU ESTABLISH A PRACTICE AND ESTABLISH A LIFE, PUT YOUR KIDS IN SCHOOL IN ANOTHER STATE, JUST BECAUSE THE LAW CHANGES DOES NOT MEAN YOU'RE UPROOTING EVERYBODY AND MOVING BACK.

SO I DON'T THINK THAT WILL WILL IMMEDIATELY SOLVE THE PROBLEM OF OB-GYN CARE IN IDAHO.

IT MAY, HOWEVER, IF THE LAW STANDS, IF THE AMENDMENT STANDS, RATHER, MAKE IT EASIER FOR HOSPITALS AND PRACTICES TO RECRUIT NEW OB-GYNs.

>> I WONDER IF IDAHO IS THAT DIFFERENT FROM SEVERAL OF THE OTHER STATES WHO HAVE THESE ABORTION BANS, OR SHOULD WE BE LOOKING AT IT AS KIND OF AN EARLY WARNING SIGN OF WHAT THE CONSEQUENCES ARE?

>> SO WHILE THERE'S 20 STATES ACROSS THE COUNTRY THAT HAVE BANNED ABORTION BEFORE THE STANDARD SET IN ROE, THERE'S ONLY A HANDFUL THAT HAVE THESE KIND OF STRICT CRIMINAL PENALTIES.

THE REASON WE KNOW SO DIRECTLY ABOUT THE IMPACT IN IDAHO IS HONESTLY THAT IT WAS POSSIBLE TO COLLECT THE DATA.

IDAHO IS A RELATIVELY SMALL STATE IN TERMS OF POPULATION.

SO PUBLIC HEALTH ROACHERS COULD AND DID CALL EVERY OB-GYN IN THE STATE AND ASK WHAT THEIR STATUS WAS.

THAT'S MUCH HARDER TO DO IN A PLACE LIKE TEXAS, AND IT'S REALLY HARD TO GET THAT DATA BECAUSE IF YOU JUST LOOK AT WHETHER PEOPLE ARE LICENSED IN THE STATE THEY COULD BE LICENSED IN THE STATE BUT NOT NECESSARILY PRACTICING THERE OR NOT DELIVERING BABIES AND JUST DOING GYNECOLOGICAL WORK.

SO THE ONLY WAY TO REALLY GET THIS KIND OF DATA IS WITH THAT PERSON-TO-PERSON CONTACT AND THAT'S JUST REALLY HARD TO DO IN A STATE WITH A LOT MORE DOCTORS.

BUT I DEFINITELY THINK THE FORCES AT PLAY IN EYE IDAHO ARE AT PLAY IN OTHER STATES AND CERTAINLY OB- GYNs IN STATES WITH ABORTION FANS WITH CRIMINAL PENALTIES ARE THINKING ABOUT DAILY IN THEIR WORK.

>> REPORTER FOR THE "NEW YORK TIMES" LISA LERER, THANKS SO MUCH.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.