>> THE FOLLOWING PROGRAM IS A PBS WISCONSIN ORIGINAL PRODUCTION.

>> STATE LAWMAKERS THIS WEEK SUPPORT DROPPING TAXES ON BUSINESS EQUIPMENT, EVEN AS A BUDGET PLAN TO CUT INCOME AND LOCAL PROPERTY TAXES GOES TO A VOTE NEXT WEEK.

[CHANTING] >> AND IMMIGRANT WORKERS SEEK CITIZENSHIP ON A MARCH FROM MILWAUKEE TO MADISON.

I'M FREDERICA FREYBERG.

TONIGHT ON "HERE AND NOW," ZAC SCHULTZ REPORTS ON HOW PROPERTY TAXES GUIDE THE POLITICAL DEBATE AT ALL LEVELS OF GOVERNMENT.

TWO EXPERTS DISCUSS WHY CRITICAL RACE THEORY IS NO SO CONTROVERSIAL.

WE TALK WITH A RELIGIOUS LEADER ADVOCATING AGAINST VOTER SUPPRESSION.

AND WE'LL FOLLOW MARCHERS ON THEIR TREK ACROSS THE STATE.

IT'S "HERE AND NOW" FOR JUNE 25.

>> FUNDING IS PROVIDED BY FOCUS FUND FOR JOURNALISM AND PBS WISCONSIN.

>> THE COMPLICATED GOP STATE BUDGET MACHINATIONS OVER TAX CUTS LEAVE SCHOOL DISTRICTS ABOUT EVEN, BUT ALLOW FOR FEDERAL COVID RELIEF DOLLARS TO FLOW INTO WISCONSIN.

BUDGET WRITERS BROUGHT DOWN PROPERTY TAXES.

THEY THEN BACKFILLED SCHOOL FUNDING WITH STATE DOLLARS.

THAT MAINTAINED EL ELIGIBILITY FOR FEDERAL FUNDS WHICH WOULD HAVE BEEN FORFEITED HAD WISCONSIN NOT OBLIGED TO THE MAINTENANCE OF EFFORT THRESHOLD FOR FUNDING OF SCHOOLS.

PROPERTY TAXES ARE A VEXING AND IMPORTANT DRIVER FOR HOMEOWNERS, SCHOOL AND POLITICIANS.

ZAC SCHULTZ UNRAVELS THE WAY IT WORKS.

>> IF YOU LIVE IN WISCONSIN, THERE'S ALMOST NO ESCAPING THE PROPERTY TAX.

EVEN IF YOU DON'T OWN A HOME, YOU'RE PAYING YOUR LANDLORD'S PROPERTY TAX BILL THROUGH YOUR REPRESENT AND THAT BILL CAN BE BIG.

<!32768> IN >> JASON STEIN IS RESEARCHER DIRECTOR AT THE POLICY FORUM AND STUDIES THE MATTER.

WISCONSIN STANDS OUT IN HOW MUCH WE RELY ON THE PROPERTY TAX.

>> WE RELY VERY HEAVILY ON THE PROPERTY TAX TO FUND LOCAL GOVERNMENT.

>> COUNTIES, TOWNS, VILLAGES SCHOOL DISTRICTS COLLECT TAXES TO FUND SERVICES LIKE POLICE AND FIRE, PARKS, ROADS AND THE COURTS.

WHEN YOU OPEN YOUR BILL, YOU CAN SEE WHERE YOUR MONEY IS GOING AND HOW IT ALL ADDS UP.

HOW MUCH YOU PAY IS BASED ON THE VALUE OF YOUR PROPERTY.

LET'S LOOK AT TWO HOMEOWNERS IN THE CITY OF ONALASKA LOCATED NORTH OF LA CROSSE ON THE MISSISSIPPI RIVER.

THE OWNER OF THIS $800,000 HOME IN THE BLUFFS OWED NEARLY $14,000 IN 2020.

DOWN THE HILL, THE OWNER OF THIS $170,000 HOME PAID $2700.

>> SO IF YOU ASK ANY HOMEOWNER IN WISCONSIN, HEY, WHAT'D YOU PAY IN PROPERTY TAXES LAST YEAR, THEY'RE GOING TO BE ABLE TO GIVE YOU A NUMBER THAT IS CLOSE OR EVEN EXACT TO WHAT THEY PAID.

>> ONE REASON IT STANDS OUT IS IT COMES IN ONE LARGE BILL.

YOU PAY SALES TAX ON EACH TRANSACTION.

YOU PAY YOUR INCOME TAXES ON EACH PAYCHECK.

THE PROPERTY TAX STANDS ALONE.

>> YOU COMBINE BOTH THE SALIENCE AND THE ACTUAL SIZE OF IT AND IT TENDS TO LOOMS PRETTY LARGE IN PEOPLE'S MINDS.

>> IN THEORY, PROPERTY TAX LEVIES ARE SET AT THE LOCAL LEVEL BY SCHOOL BOARDS AND CITY COUNCILS.

BUT IN REALITY PROPERTY TAXES ARE CONTROLLED AT THE STATE LEVEL BY POLITICIANS AND THE LEGISLATURE.

>> THE GOAL OBVIOUSLY IS TO KEEP PROPERTY TAXES LOW.

>> REPRESENTATIVE TONY KURTZ IS A REPUBLICAN ON THE JOINT FINANCE COMMITTEE WHICH WRITES THE STATE BUDGET.

>> I THINK EVERYBODY, ESPECIALLY MY AREA, WHEN YOU GET THAT PROPERTY TAX BILL, EVERYBODY HOLDS THEIR BREATH.

>> REPUBLICANS FIXATE ON PROPERTY TAXES BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT THEIR VOTERS TELL THEM TO DO.

>> I KEPT HEARING DON'T RAISE MY PROPERTY TAXES.

SO IN MY AREA, THAT'S A SENSITIVE ISSUE.

>> THE STATE HAS TRADITIONALLY CONTROLLED PROPERTY TAXES IN TWO WAYS, BY USING THE STATE BUDGET TO HELP PAY FOR SERVICES PROVIDED THROUGH GENERAL AID TO SCHOOLS AND SHARED REVENUE FOR LOCAL GOVERNMENTS AND BY USING STATE LAW TO ELIMINATE LOCAL CONTROL AND ENFORCE REVENUE LIMITS, PREVENTING PROPERTY TAXES FROM INCREASING.

PUBLIC SCHOOLS HAVE BEEN UNDER REVENUE LIMITS SINCE THE 1990s WHEN THE STATE PROMISED TO PAY TWO-THIRDS OF THE SCHOOL'S COST IN EXCHANGE FOR A CAP ON PROPERTY TAXES.

WHILE THE STATE RAIRG LIVES UP TO ITS END OF THE BARGAIN, IT DOES SET HOW MUCH THE CAPS CAN RISE.

>> THINK OF THAT AS A BUCKET OR CONTAINER.

>> KENT ELLICKSON IS THE DIRECTOR OF FINANCE FOR THE SCHOOL DISTRICT OF ONALASKA.

HE COMPARES THE BUDGET TO A BUCKET AND THE REVENUE LIMITS CAP THE SIZE OF THE BUCKET.

>> SO THE STATE SETS THE SIZE OF THAT BUCKET AND THEY DETERMINE HOW MUCH THEY'RE GOING TO FILL UP THAT BUCKET.

>> ELLICKSON SAYS AFTER THE STATE FILLS PART OF THE BUCKET, THE SCHOOLS LEVY PROPERTY TAXES TO FILL THE REST.

IF THE BUCKET ISN'T BIG ENOUGH, THEY ASK THEIR TAXPAYERS TO PASS AN OPERATING REFERENDUM TO INCREASE THE REVENUE LIMIT.

>> IT HAS BEEN DECADES OF FUNDING WITH CONTINUAL OPERATION REFERENDA.

THAT SUPPORTS A SIGNIFICANT CHUNK OF OUR BUDGETS.

>> CITIES, VILLAGES, TOWNS AND COUNTIES HAVE BEEN UNDER LIMITS SINCE THE 2000s.

THAT WAS ZEROED OUT UNDER GOVERNOR SCOTT WALKER.

THE TAX LEVY CAN ONLY INCREASE BY THE VALUE IN NEW CONSTRUCTION, WHICH IS A VERY SMALL NUMBER IN MOST MUNICIPALITIES.

>> THIS PAST YEAR WAS 1.5%.

THAT DOESN'T RECOGNIZE INFLATION.

>> STEVE O'MALLEY IS LA CROSSE CBT ADMINISTRATOR.

>> WE'VE SEEN LITTLE GROWTH IN STATE REVENUE.

>> STATE AND FEDERAL MANDATES REQUIRE THEM TO MAINTAIN HIGHWAYS, THE JAILS, THE COURTS AND PROVIDE HUMAN SERVICES.

>> YOU HAVE TO CUT BUDGETS, POSITIONS.

WE'VE DECREASED THE NUMBER OF FULL-TIME EMPLOYEES WITHIN LA CROSSE COUNTY, AS HAVE MOST COUNTIES ACROSS THE STATE.

>> O'MALLEY SAYS THE STATE SHOULD INCREASE SHARED REVENUE BECAUSE HE DOESN'T WANT TO INCREASE PROPERTY TAXES.

>> IT'S JUST THE HIP HYPOCRISY.

THEY DON'T HAVE TO PAY FOR WHAT THEY MANDATE COUNTIES TO PROVIDE.

>> THOSE LIMITS ARE GOING TO STRANGLE US.

>> THE TECHNICAL COLLEGES MAKE UP ANOTHER LINE ON YOUR TAX BILL BILL.

WESTERN TECHNICAL COLLEGE COVERS AN 11-COUNTY AREA.

THEY HAVE LIMITED AUTHORITY TO RAISE PROPERTY TAXES WIPED OUT BY GOVERNOR WALKER.

>> WE WERE ACCOUNTABLE UNDER A SYSTEM AND IT WAS A SYSTEM THAT WORKED AND IT WAS A REPRESENTATIVE SYSTEM BECAUSE IT REPRESENTED OUR COUNTIES.

>> HE SAYS THE LEVY LIMITS HURT THEIR ABILITY TO OFFER NEW JOB TRAINING PROGRAMS THAT ARE REQUESTED BY LOCAL EMPLOYERS BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE THE MONEY TO CREATE NEW CLASSES.

HE SAYS PEOPLE FOCUSED ON THEIR TAX BILL NEED TO UNDERSTAND A SMALL INCREASE CAN LEAD TO MORE JOBS.

>> SO ANYTIME YOU SAVE THEM $6, $7, $8 ON THAT TAX BILL, THAT FEELS GOOD.

WHEN YOU ADD IT ON THERE, YOU GO WHAT AM I DIRECTLY GETTING FOR THAT.

IT'S HARD FOR SOMEONE TO SAY THERE'S A BETTER WORK.

THEY ADDED ANOTHER SECTION OF WELDING.

IT DOESN'T TRANSFER THAT WAY.

>> WE HEAR ABOUT THAT CONSTANTLY.

>> SENATOR MARY FELZKOWSKI IS A REPUBLICAN ON THE JOINT FINANCE COMMITTEE.

SHE AGREES VOTERS DON'T ALWAYS UNDERSTAND THE LINK BETWEEN PROPERTY TAXES AND THE SERVICES THEY PAY FOR.

>> PROBABLY NOT.

BUT IT'S STILL THE DIFFERENCE OF CAN I AFFORD TO STAY IN MY HOUSE OR NOT.

>> REPUBLICANS COULD INCREASE THE AMOUNT OF MONEY THE STATE GIVES LOCAL GOVERNMENTS AND SCHOOLS TO REDUCE THEIR RELIANCE ON PROPERTY TAXES.

BUT OVER THE LAST DECADE, THEY'VE CHOSEN A DIFFERENT ROUTE, POURING MORE STATE MONEY INTO PROPERTY TAX CREDITS.

THESE CREDITS APPEAR ON YOUR PROPERTY TAX BILL AS A NEGATIVE NUMBER, REDUCING THE AMOUNT YOU OWE.

THE STATE USES MONEY COLLECTED FROM SALES AND INCOME TAXES TO PAY OFF A PORTION OF YOUR PROPERTY TAXES.

THE FIRST DOLLAR CREDIT ADDS UP TO $150 MILLION A YEAR STATEWIDE AND IT'S THE SAME NUMBER FOR ALL HOMEOWNERS IN EACH SCHOOL DISTRICT.

THE LOTTERY CREDIT COMES FROM PROCEEDS FROM THE LOTTERY AND IT'S THE SAME FOR ALL HOMEOWNERS AS WELL.

THE SCHOOL LEVY CREDIT IS THE BIG ONE AND IT'S USED TO LOWER THE TAX RATE IN EACH SCHOOL DISTRICT AND THIS IS WHERE REPUBLICANS HAVE INVESTED MORE AND MORE MONEY, TO THE POINT WHERE THE STATE BUDGET SPENDS NEARLY A BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR ON THE SCHOOL LEVY CREDIT.

>> BOTH PROPERTY AND INCOME TAXES WILL BE LOWER IN 2018 THAN THEY WERE IN 2010.

>> THIS ACCELERATED DURING SCOTT WALKER'S TIME AS GOVERNOR.

HE STARTED CAMPAIGNING ON A PLEDGE TO MAKE PROPERTY TAXES LOWER THAN WHEN HE TOOK OFFICE.

AND WHEN FREEZING LEVY LIMITS WASN'T ENOUGH, HE STARTED PUMPING MORE STATE MONEY INTO CREDITS.

REPUBLICANS INCREASED THE SIZE OF THE SCHOOL LEVY CREDIT IN 2013, '16 AND '18.

IN 2014, THEY ADDED $420 MILLION IN STATE DOLLARS TO THE TECHNICAL COLLEGE BUDGET BUT REQUIRED THEM TO LOWER PROPERTY TAXES BY THE SAME AMOUNT.

IN 2017, THEY ELIMINATED THE STATE FOR FORESTRY TAX.

THEY PUT MONEY INTO FUNDING THE LOTTERY SO THAT CREDIT WOULD INCREASE.

IN THE LAST DECADE THE STATE HAS INVESTED $13.6 BILLION TO BUY DOWN PROPERTY TAXES.

BUT WHO'S SEEN THE MOST BENEFIT FROM THAT INVESTMENT?

WHO'S SAVING THE MOST MONEY?

THE PEOPLE WHO OWN THE MOST PROPERTY, OF COURSE.

LET'S LOOK AT OUR HOMEOWNERS IN ONALASKA.

IN 2011, THIS HOME WAS VALUED AT $706,000 AND THE OWNER PAID $14,000 IN PROPERTY TAXES.

OVER THE NEXT TEN YEARS, THE HOME WENT UP $95,000 IN ASSESSED VALUE, TO $801,000.

BUT IN 2020 THE PROPERTY TAXES HAD GONE DOWN FROM WHERE THEY WERE IN 2011, TO $13,992.

OVER THE YEARS, THOSE THREE TAX CREDITS ON THE BILL SAVED THE OWNER $14,000.

DOWN THE HILL, THIS HOME WAS VALUED AT $108,000 IN 2011 AND PAID $2,000.

OVER THE DECADE, THIS HOME WENT UP $60,000 IN VALUE, BUT BY 2020 THE PROPERTY TAXES WERE UP TO $2780.

THE THREE CREDITS SAVED THIS HOMEOWNER JUST UNDER $4,000.

REPUBLICANS LIKE SENATOR FELL COWSAYSIT'S OKAY IF THE WEALTHY PAY MORE.

>> IF HE'S GOING TO PAY MORE, HE'S GOING TO SAVE MORE.

>> REPUBLICANS SAY CONTROLLING PROPERTY TAXES WAS ALL ABOUT HELPING PEOPLE AFFORD TO STAY IN THEIR HOMES.

>> WHEN WE CAN KEEP PROPERTY TAXES LOW THAT'S GOING TO KEEP THOSE PEOPLE ON THOSE FIXED INCOMES.

>> BUT INCREASING THE SCHOOL LEVY CREDIT IS NOT THE BEST WAY TO ACHIEVE THAT GOAL.

>> IF YOU WANT TO ENSURE THAT SAY ELDERLY PEOPLE REMAIN IN THEIR HOMES, THEN NO.

THERE WOULD BE MORE EFFICIENT WAYS TO DO THAT.

>> WE HAVE IT SORT OF UPSIDE DOWN IN WISCONSIN.

>> ANDREW RESCHOVSKY IS A PROFESSOR EMERITUS AT THE UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN.

HE STUDIES PUBLIC AFFAIRS AND ONE OF HIS STUDIES FOUND ONLY ABOUT HALF OF THE SCHOOL LEVY CREDIT GOES TO WISCONSIN HOMEOWNERS.

THE REST OF THE CREDITS GO TO OWNERS OF FARMLAND, COMMERCIAL PROPERTY, INDUSTRIAL PROPERTY AND OUT-OF-STATE OWNERS.

MOST OF THE CREDIT GOES TO WEALTHY PROPERTY AREAS.

>> THE WAY THE LEVY CREDIT WORKS, THEY GET A LARGER PROPORTION OF THE TOTAL CREDIT.

>> THE PROFESSOR SAYS IF THE GOAL IS TO HELP LOW-INCOME HOMEOWNERS PAY THEIR PROPERTY TAXES, THE SOLUTION IS NOT THROUGH THE PROPERTY TAX BILL, BUT THROUGH THE INCOME TAX RETURN.

>> THE HOMESTEAD CREDIT IS WHAT IS CALLED A CIRCUIT BREAKER.

>> THE HOMESTEAD CREDIT KICKS IN IF THE PROPORTION OF YOUR PROPERTY TAXES IS HIGH COMPARED TO YOUR INCOME.

BUT COMPARED TO OTHER PROPERTY TAX CREDITS, IT'S VERY LIMITED.

>> OVER THE LAST TEN YEARS, THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE GETTING THE CREDIT HAS HALVED.

>> IN FACT, THE HOMESTEAD CREDIT IS THE ONE AREA OF PROPERTY TAX RELIEF REPUBLICANS HAVE CUT OVER THE LAST DECADE, DOWN 45% FROM WHERE IT WAS IN 2011.

>> IT'S TINY.

TINY AMOUNT OF MONEY RELATIVE EXAMPLE TO THE SCHOOL LEVY CREDIT.

>> IN THE SAME DECADE WISCONSIN SPENT $13 BILLION TO LOWER PROPERTY TAXES.

THE STATE SPENT JUST $1 BILLION ON THE HOMESTEAD CREDIT.

>> THE IRONY IS THAT BY THAT FOCUS, WE ARE NOT ACHIEVING THE POLITICAL GOAL THAT THE LEGISLATORS WANTED IN THE BEGINNING, WHICH WAS TO TARGET THOSE PEOPLE WHO REALLY NEED RELIEF.

>> REPORTING FROM ONALASKA, I'M ZAC SCHULTZ FOR "HERE AND NOW."

>> YOU HEARD ZAC REPORT ON LEVY LIMITS PLACED ON SCHOOLS AND LOCAL GOVERNMENTS.

REPUBLICAN BUDGET WRITERS KEPT THOSE CAPS IN PLACE IN THE BUDGET TO BE VOTED ON NEXT WEEK.

MEANWHILE, EARLIER THIS MONTH A GROUP OF STATE REPUBLICAN LAWMAKERS INTRODUCED LEGISLATION THAT WOULD PROHIBIT PUBLIC SCHOOLS THE UW AND TECH COLLEGES FROM TEACHING CRITICAL RACE THEORY, A DECADES OLD ACADEMIC THEORY THAT HOLDS THAT RACISM IS SYSTEMATIC, BUILT INTO SOCIETAL INSTITUTIONS SINCE THE DAYS OF SLAVERY.

GLORIA LADSON-BILLINGS IS ONE OF THE ACADEMICS WHO FIRST APPLIED THE CRITICAL RACE THEORY TO HER EDUCATION POLICY RESEARCH.

SHE'S A PROFESSOR AT UW-MADISON AND NOW THE PRESIDENT OF THE NATIONAL ACADEMY OF EDUCATION.

BUT HOW DOES CRITICAL RACE THEORY CROSS OVER INTO TODAY'S POLITICS?

TO THAT, WE ASK EMERITUS PROFESSOR JOHN WITTE, A POLICY EXPERT WHO SAYS THE CONCEPT IS WIDELY MISUNDERSTOOD.

AND THEY BOTH JOIN US NOW AND THANKS FOR BEING HERE.

>> WELCOME.

>> A PLEASURE.

>> WELL, FIRST TO YOU, PROFESSOR BILLINGS, WHAT IS CRITICAL RACE THEORY?

>> IT IS AN ATTEMPT TO BEGIN TO UNDERSTAND RACIAL DISPARITY.

IF YOU LOOK OVER THE HISTORY OF THE NATION, WE STARTED OUT IN 1600 UP INTO THE MID 20TH CENTURY LITERALLY SAYING THAT THE REASON THAT THERE WERE RACIAL DISPARITIES IS BECAUSE THERE WERE BIOLOGICAL AND INTELLECTUAL DEFICIENCIES.

WE'VE FINALLY PUT THAT MYTH TO REST AND IT'S FALLEN OUT OF FAVOR.

I WOULD SAY IN THE NEXT FEW YEARS WE BEGAN TO LOOK AT ISSUES OF EQUAL OPPORTUNITY.

SO WE HAD THE BROWN DECISION.

CERTAINLY WE HAD RECONSTRUCTION, WE HAD THE BROWN DECISION, THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT, THE VOTING RIGHTS ACT.

SO WE'VE HAD OPPORTUNITIES.

BUT THEY ALL GET ROLLED BACK.

WE CAN SHOW YOU CLEARLY IN THE HISTORY OF THE NATION THAT WE ROLL THOSE BACK.

SO CRITICAL RACE THEORY IS YET ANOTHER WAY TO THINK ABOUT HOW DO WE UNDERSTAND RACIAL DISPARITY.

>> SO WISCONSIN U.S. REPRESENTATIVE GLEN GROTHMAN HAS INTRODUCED A BILL BANNING ITS TEACHING SAYING THE PURPOSE OF THIS RETELLING OF AMERICAN HISTORY IS TO TO TRY TO SET AMERICAN AGAINST AMERICAN HE SAYS AND THAT QUOTE THE CRT CURRICULUM THAT ENLIGHTENED EDUCATORS TEACHES OUR CHILDREN TO HATE EACH OTHER AND OUR COUNTRY MEN.

THERE ARE NO BOGEYMAN HOLDING PEOPLE BACK.

PROFESSOR LADSON-BILLINGS, WHAT IS YOUR RESPONSE TO THAT?

>> THE BOOGEYMAN IS THAT CRT IS IN K-12 SCHOOLS.

IT'S THERE AS MUCH AS UNICORNS ARE THERE.

IT'S NOT IN THE CURRICULUM.

I WOULD ADVISE REPRESENTATIVE GROTHMAN TO GO UP BASCOM HILL AND LOOK AT THE PLAQUE ABOUT SIFTING AND WINNOWING THAT SAYS THIS IS A STATE THAT WILL NOT PROHIBIT THE SEARCH FOR THE TRUTH.

THEY DIDN'T WANT PROFESSOR ELY IN THE 1800s TO TEACH SOCIALISM.

I'M VERY HARTENED BY THE FACT THAT WE HAD THE JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF GENERAL SAY THE OTHER DAY THAT HE HAD READ LENIN AND MARX.

IT DIDN'T MAKE HIM A COMMUNIST.

>> DID CRITICAL RACE THEORY TEACH TO HATE WHITE PEOPLE?

>> ABSOLUTELY NOT.

IN SEVERAL OF THE INTERVIEWS THAT I HAVE DONE BEFORE I'VE DONE INTERVIEWS WITH PRINT REPORTERS, I'VE SENT THEM ARTICLES I'VE WRITTEN AND THEN WHEN THEY CONTACT ME, I SAID, WHAT IN THE ARTICLE SAYS THAT YOU SHOULD HATE WHITE PEOPLE.

THEY ALL AGREE, IT'S NOT THERE.

IT IS NOT THERE.

>> PROFESSOR WITTE, WE KNOW THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP BANNED ANY FEDERAL TRAINING IN CRITICAL RACE THEORY, WHITE PRIVILEGE OR OTHER WHAT HE CALLED POP PROPAGANDA.

WAS THAT DIRECTLY THE GENESIS OF POLITICIZING CRITICAL RACE THEORY?

>> OH, YES, IT WAS, THAT AND JANUARY 6.

STARTS WITH JANUARY 6 AND THEN TRUMP GETS INVOLVED.

BUT THERE ARE MISUNDERSTANDINGS ABOUT WHAT IT MEANS, I THINK.

WHILE GLORIA HAS LAID IT OUT ACCURATELY, DIFFERENT PEOPLE INTERPRET IT DIFFERENTLY.

SO THE PEOPLE THAT ARE PROPONENTS OF IT, THEY POINT TO THE HISTORIC ORIGINS OF IT, SLAVERY, AND THEY ALSO ARGUE THAT IT'S STILL A PRESENT PROBLEM NOW WITH INEQUITIES.

THE DIFFERENCE IS THAT THE OPPONENTS SAY THAT THERE'S A BLAME GAME HERE, THAT THE CURRENT GENERATION IS SOMEHOW TO BLAME FOR WHAT HAPPENED HISTORICALLY AND IT'S THEIR RESPONSIBILITY TO RECTIFY IT.

THAT'S WHERE YOU GET THE HUGE DIVIDE AND YOU GET THE VERY STRIDENT DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THOSE POSITIONS.

>> SO WHAT SHOULD WE MAKE OF THE WAY THAT PROPOSALS TO BAN CRITICAL RACE THEORY AS A SCHOOL SUBJECT ARE SWEEPING THE NATION?

>> WELL, MY VIEW HAS BEEN THAT BECAUSE OF THE DIFFERENCES IN OPINION WHAT IT MEANS, YOU SHOULD BE VERY GINGER ABOUT TEACHING IT.

I WOULD NOT INTRODUCE IT TO ELEMENTARY STUDENTS OR EVEN MIDDLE SCHOOLS.

I DO THINK IT SHOULD BE INTRODUCED IN HIGH SCHOOLS BECAUSE IT'S ALL OVER THE NEWS.

IT'S GOING TO BE ALL OVER THIS SHOW TONIGHT.

AND I HOPE THAT THERE ARE SOME HIGH SCHOOL KIDS OUT THERE WATCHING AND READING THOSE THINGS.

I THINK THERE YOU CAN DISCUSS IT IN A REASONABLE MANNER.

YOU GOT TO APPROACH IT IN A GINGERLY MANNER BECAUSE YOU CAN GET VERY BAD FEELINGS ON BOTH SIDES, AFRICAN-AMERICANS AND WHITE PEOPLE.

>> REPRESENTATIVE LAWSON-BILLINGS, IS IT PART OF SCHOOL CURRICULUM NOW?

<!32768> IT IS NOT.

I WOULD NOT INTRODUCE IT IN HIGH SCHOOL.

IT'S A THEER RYE.

THEORY.

WHO NEEDS THEORY?

GRADUATE STUDENTS.

I NEVER INTRODUCED IT EVEN TO UNDERGRADUATES.

I WORKED WITH GRADUATE STUDENTS WHO ARE LOOKING FOR A THEORETICAL FRAME TO BOLSTER AN ARGUMENT AND THAT'S WHERE IT RESIDES.

>> PROFESSOR WITTE, YOU HAVE SAID A DIFFERENT TERM ALTOGETHER SHOULD BE USED TO DISCUSS RACIAL DISPARITIES.

WHY?

>> I WOULD DROP CRITICAL RACE THEORY AND FIND OTHER TERMS TO DEAL WITH IT, HOWEVER THEY WANT TO PHRASE IT.

I DON'T THINK -- I DISAGREE WITH GLORIA HERE.

I DON'T THINK YOU SHOULD AVOID IT.

NOW, THAT'S PART MY WHAT I DO.

I BRING -- MY WHOLE CAREER I BROUGHT IN THE MOST CONTROVERSIAL THINGS I COULD FIND.

WE TALKED ABOUT ABORTION AT THE UNDERGRADUATE LEVEL, VERY HEATED ISSUES.

I STUDIED EDUCATIONAL VOUCHERS, VERY HEATED ISSUE IN THE EDUCATION WORLD.

I TALKED ABOUT IT STRAIGHTFORWARD AND BOTH SIDES GIVEN.

I THINK THE SAME THING SHOULD HAPPEN HERE.

YOU HAVE TO BE VERY SENSITIVE TO DOING IT.

I AGREE WITH HER THERE.

I AGREE WITH THAT.

BECAUSE YOU GOT TO ALWAYS WATCH THE FACES OF PEOPLE TO SEE WHO'S BEING HARMED AND WHO'S GETTING VERY ANGRY.

YOU CAN TELL THAT IN THE CLASSROOM.

YOU CAN SEE IT AND WATCH FOR THAT.

>> I WANT TO ASK ONE LAST QUESTION QUICKLY OF YOU, PROFESSOR BILLINGS.

APART FROM THE BROUHAHA OVER CRITICAL RACE THEORY, WHAT IS THE IMPORTANCE OF TEACHING CULTURALLY ACCURATE HISTORY?

>> I'VE BEEN VERY FORTUNATE THAT WE HAVE JUST PUT OUT A REPORT ON CIVIC DISCOURSE AND CIVIC REASONING.

THAT'S THE PLACE WHERE I THINK WE HAVE TO GO AS A NATION.

AS JOHN MENTIONED, JANUARY 6 SHOWED US CLEARLY WE DON'T KNOW HOW TO SIT DOWN AND TALK WHEN WE DISAGREE.

SO THAT'S THE WORK THAT WE HAVE TO DO, IS FIGURE OUT HOW DO WE HAVE CIVIL DISCOURSE, EVEN WHEN WE DON'T SEE THE WORLD THE SAME WAY.

>> WE NEED TO LEAVE IT THERE.

PROFESSORS, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR INSIGHTS.

>> THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU.

>> THIS WEEK, THE STATE ASSEMBLY PASSED A SLATE OF ELECTION-RELATED BILLS THAT WILL HEAD TO THE GOVERNOR'S DESK AND ARE LIKELY TO BE VETOED, REQUIRING VOTERS TO PRESENT VOTER I.D.

TO VOTE AND MAKE VOTERS REAPPLY EACH ELECTION TO RECEIVE A BALLOT.

DEMOCRATS SAY IT MAKES IT HARDER TO VOTE.

>> SINCE NOVEMBER 2020 REPUBLICANS HAVE BEEN PERPETUATING THEORIES THAT THE 2020 ELECTION WAS STOLEN, LEADING TO ARMED INSURRECTIONISTS STORMING THE CAPITOL.

NOW THEY WANT TO USE THE DOUBTS TO CHANGE STATE ELECTION LAW.

>> THE GOAL IS TO MAKE SURE THAT EVERY PERSON HAS THE CHANCE TO VOTE, BUT THAT WE GUARANTEE CONFIDENCE IN THE ELECTION, WHICH HAS BEEN SEVERELY UNDERMINED BY THE ACTIONS OF A FEW OVER THE COURSE OF THE LAST ELECTION CYCLE HOPEFULLY ARE A THING OF THE PAST.

>> CHANGING THE RULES HAS BECOME A TOP PRIORITY FOR REPUBLICANS ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

THEY SAY THEIR OBJECTIVE IS TO MAINTAIN INTEGRITY OF THE VOTE.

RABBI BONNIE MARGULIS SPOKE IN THIS "NOON WEDNESDAY" ASKING WHETHER THE STATUS OF THE BILLS MATTERS.

>> GOVERNOR EVERS IS GOING TO MORE THAN LIKELY VETO THESE BILLS, BUT WHAT'S THE IMPACT OF THE BILLS ACTUALLY BEING INTRODUCED AND PUT OUT THERE?

WHAT KIND OF PRESSURE IS THAT PUTTING ON THE VOTING PROCESS?

>> PEOPLE DON'T ALWAYS READ TO THE END OF A NEWS ITEM TO READ THAT THE GOVERNOR VETOED THESE BILLS BUT JUST HEAR THAT THEY'RE OUT THERE AND IT MAKES FOR A LOT OF CONFUSION AND A LOT OF PEOPLE NOT REALLY KNOWING CAN I DO THIS, CAN'T I DO THIS, WHAT'S THE LAW NOW.

AND THE MORE PEOPLE ARE CONFUSED, THE MORE RELUCTANT THEY ARE TO EVEN TRY TO VOTE.

SO IT REALLY HAS A VERY NEGATIVE EFFECT ON VOTER REGISTRATION AND VOTER TURNOUT, WHICH, SADLY, IS THE PURPOSE OF THESE BILLS AND OF THE FALSE NARRATIVE THAT'S BEING PROMOTED.

>> NOW TO IMMIGRATION NEWS AND ONE GROUP'S EFFORT TO CREATE CHANGES.

SUNDAY IMMIGRANT ESSENTIAL WORKERS BEGAN A MARCH FROM MILWAUKEE TO MADISON DEMANDING CITIZENSHIP AND DRIVER'S LICENSES FOR ALL.

>> BIDEN RAN ON A PROMISE OF CITIZENSHIP.

DEMOCRATS CAN GET IT DONE BY INTERVIEWING IT IN THIS JOBS PACKET.

THIS MARCH IS TO INVITE PEOPLE TO ELEVATE THOSE VOICES AND SEND A MESSAGE THAT THEY ARE NOT ALONE.

>> THIS MARCH IS PART OF A BROADER NATIONAL MOVEMENT FIGHTING TO INCLUDE CITIZENSHIP FOR ALL IN THE INFRASTRUCTURE BILL CURRENTLY BEING NEGOTIATED.

MARCHES SAID THIS WOULD NOT ONLY HELP INDIVIDUALS, IT WOULD ALSO BENEFIT THE ECONOMY.

>> OUR BUSINESS PARTNERS ARE HURTING FOR FACTORY WORKERS, DRIVERS, FOOD SERVICE AND MANY OTHER JOBS.

BUSINESSES ARE HAVING TO CLOSE BECAUSE OF THE CURRENT WORKFORCE SHORTAGE CRISIS.

>> THIS MARCH WILL END MONDAY, JUNE 28, CONCLUDING WITH A DEMONSTRATION AT THE STATE CAPITOL.

THERE, PARTICIPANTS WILL TELL THE COMMUNITY WHEN THEY EXPECT IMMIGRATION REFORM.

>> THE TIME IS NOW!

THE TIME IS NOW!

THE TIME IS NOW!

>> FOR ONLINE COVERAGE ON YOU A THE TOPICS WE COVERED TONIGHT, GO TO pbswisconsin.org AND CLICK ON THE NEWS PAGE.

THAT IS ALL FOR TONIGHT'S PROGRAM.

I'M FREDERICA FREYBERG.

HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND.

>> FUNDING FOR "HERE AND NOW" IS PROVIDED BY THE FOCUS FUND FOR JOURNALISM AND FRIENDS OF PBS WISCONSIN.