This.

In the wake of abrupt cuts to USAID funding, Vermont nonprofits, companies and workers are left reeling.

Plus, how the state is trying to prevent the spread of bird flu.

And look at drug treatment incentives and mental health services for prisoners and Governor Scott's public safety proposal.

All that and more ahead on Vermont this week.

From the Vermont Public studio in Winooski.

This is Vermont this Week, made possible in part by the Lintilhac Foundation and Milne Travel.

Here's moderator Mitch Wertlieb.

Thanks for being with us.

I'm Mitch Wertlieb.

It's Friday, February 14th.

Happy Valentine's Day to all those who celebrate.

And if you don't, it's also National Ferris Wheel Day.

So you have an alternative.

Joining us on the panel today, we have Anne Wallace Allen from Seven Days, Calvin Cutler from WCAX and Lexi Krupp from Vermont Public.

Thank you all so much for being here.

I apologize for a little bit of levity at the top there, but we have some serious stuff to talk about.

That's why I want to get that out of the way first.

And and I want to start with this article that you wrote about in seven days, which is really fascinating.

I mentioned, cuts to USAID.

That's the United States agency for International Development at the top.

You know, these have been happening because, President Trump has said that he feels it's wasteful spending to send money overseas to help with international, development.

But you have found in your article that these cuts are affecting Vermonters right here, and people are losing jobs.

What have you found?

Yeah, Mitch, this is a program that, as you said, it sends health care services, it sets up clinics.

It has an array, an enormous array of work overseas that has a is an agency and and for many decades old agency with 10,000 employees.

But, a lot of people in Vermont are actually affiliated with USAID programs.

And they some many of them work full time sometimes for contractors who get some funding from USAID, sometimes for contractors and other states that are completely supported by USAID.

So you'll find, somebody who works in the health sector, who lives in Montpelier, works remotely, travels a little bit.

And, those people are all over the state.

Vermont actually has a lot of returned Peace Corps volunteers, is one of the highest number per capita.

And a lot of Peace Corps volunteers go into this kind of work.

So it wasn't that hard for me to find people who are working now and have been for a long time for USAID.

Like these are people who are established in their careers.

And so they could tell me, yeah, I'm laying off, I've had to furlough all my employees, you know, and some of them are in Vermont and some of them are elsewhere.

So these are a lot of nonprofits.

But what other organizations might be involved here?

Yeah, it's nonprofits.

And then it's also for profit companies because the, like one of the people I talked to works for a company that is getting, funding from USAID to help set up broadband in places like Belarus in Southeast Asia, where they don't have it.

So it's a for profit company that, otherwise it wouldn't make sense for them to do this kind of work.

And they have employees in Burlington or, a startup called think MD, which is a came out of the University of Vermont.

They are doing an array of programs aimed at helping provide, health care, through AI and through training when there's no doctor on hand.

It's a in a in a very small village somewhere.

But there are health care workers.

And so they had a million and a half grant from USAID to help them do a pilot project.

And I think Nigeria and, their funding is imperiled for the same reason.

You know, they don't even know, if they're going to be able to keep doing this, it's kind of unlikely.

So these are people who maybe have already lost their jobs, or are there further job cuts that could come from this, you think?

And I should also add, there's two companies that in Vermont residents and Tetra Tech, two different companies that actually do this full time USAID work.

So many of the people I talked to had actually lost their jobs.

I talked to one woman who, she was furloughed, her husband was furloughed.

He had surgery coming up next month.

They're losing their health insurance.

And, you know, for many of these people, they're living in Jericho or they're living in the, you know, the Lake Champlain Islands, or they're living somewhere where they can afford to live, and work remotely.

And if they lose their job, it's it's kind of a specialized area.

It's a niche area, especially if you've been doing it for a long time.

I will say, also, you know, the broader sort of political context here in Washington to, you know, there have been some carve outs for some of these programs in other states, because, you know, defunding USAID across the board, that's millions and millions of dollars, lots and lots of jobs.

But there's been certain programs that there's it's interesting that there's individuals that are, Republicans in Congress that are aligned with President Trump and that they said, well, we can keep this program or keep this program, but we'll move it into the Department of Homeland Security or move it to this place.

So it really USAID as a program is getting the ax, but some components of it, depending on where you are sitting in Congress, those jobs might might stay.

But hell yeah, I'm so glad you brought that up, because you actually anticipated my question.

And I was going to ask you about this because, you know, you again, you were concentrating on what's happening in Vermont and the job losses here.

But I was wondering, Vermont is considered a blue state.

I USAID, as Calvin was just saying, there are other states where this is happening, but you're saying there's a political component to this as well, where perhaps, you know, there's protections for people working in these more red states?

Yeah.

Well, that's one of the things that, Senator Peter Welch had said when, you know, there were these broad cuts from those and there is a broad restructuring of the government.

Peter Welch had said that, you know, when programs are cut in red states, strongholds of President Trump, that maybe he might get some pushback among Republicans in Congress.

But what we're seeing is that at least with some of these USAID programs in other states, there have been carve outs, that there's been negotiations, and Republicans have been able to sort of work behind the scenes.

So, you know, I'm sure there still will be it's tough to paint with a broad brush here.

It really does get down to the nitty gritty of each individual program.

And what state it's in.

But, the political factors, you know, the political influence and sort of what programs stay and which ones get cut.

There is a political element to that as well in Washington.

And then briefly, yeah, go ahead.

And I also wanted to add that there's there's it's not just people who are individually working for these organizations in other states, but there's also farmers, even in Vermont, who grow food for USAID programs.

That's what they've been doing.

That is their primary means of support.

And, if that goes away, that's going to be a different kind of pressure, too, for the Republicans.

We're going to have to see that.

And we'll follow your reporting on that, of course, because it sounds like this could have more effects down the line.

Kelvin also wanted to talk about Vermont, had planned some, EV chargers, to have in the state, you know, this was going to be put out, but it's been put on pause now because President Trump has suspended that program.

What's the effect there?

Yeah, right.

I mean, we've had, you know, millions and millions of dollars from the American Rescue Plan, the CARES act, the Inflation Reduction Act.

The Infrastructure Act for EV charging infrastructure across the state.

There's been lots of contractors.

It's part of really the state's vision, or the nation's vision.

One what one might say to drastically restructure and how we heat our homes, how we get around, you know, the electric revolution.

So, so to speak.

But one of the programs that's been on the chopping block, in Washington, has also been subsidies for electric vehicle chargers here in Vermont.

The latest tranche of funding, there was about nine or so million, maybe a little more than $9 million that is, being put on pause.

So it has an immediate impact, of course, with building out charging infrastructure.

You know, in a rural state like Vermont that has been challenging for for, EV owners, you know, to get from point A to point B and have that reliable grid.

But also, you know, this could have broader implications on state policy as well.

You know, coming up, we've got a clean car and clean truck emissions where a certain number of, EVs or cars are rolling off car dealerships.

Lots have to be EVs.

This could have an effect, sort of, on how all of that operates.

Plus, we have our legally mandated, obligations under the Global Warming Solutions Act to reduce our carbon pollution.

The highest share of that comes from cars and how we as Vermonters get around from point A to point B.

So, yeah, I think this this certainly could have some some broader implications on, you know, where Vermont's climate policy goes as a state.

It could affect tourism, too, right?

I mean, you want people to come to the state, we already know that Vermont is has a large chunk of its, funding now coming from tourism, and people want to come if they have EVs, they want to be able to charge their cars.

I was up in Berlin and I was talking with a gentleman at the gas pumps.

And, you know, he said that during the eclipse, there were tons of cars from Connecticut, Massachusetts, etc.

that were parked there at the rest stop in Berlin, waiting to get in line for the EV chargers so they can get back to to Massachusetts.

Now, we're not going to have, of course, you know, eclipse, sadly, you know, every every year like foliage season.

But, you know, to that point about how other states are going, what direction the national, EV marketplace and the national automotive industry is heading.

Some would say having those those charging stations would be, a benefit to Vermont.

So I guess it's one of those things, but we'll just have to wait and see.

But it definitely will have an impact for sure.

I want to move on to something that's happening at the University of Vermont.

And, Lexi and and you've both been reporting on this, you've earned a designation as a top tier research institution recently.

Lexi, what can you tell us about that?

Yeah, this is this coveted R-1 status, which stands for research one.

And it's basically an indication that the university spends a certain amount of money on research.

And so I talked to Professor Kirk Dombroski there, and he said, this is the number one question we get at a job fair is talking to.

Yeah.

Potential faculty and students.

Is are you an R-1 University?

So it's really cool for, for them to sort of earn this and, be able to attract students, faculty.

That's the good news aspect of it.

Yeah.

Yes.

But are there concerns now about that, that research funding at being at risk at all.

Well, so more impacts of changes at the federal level.

There has been this proposal to change how the NIH, the National Institute of Health, awards its grants and cap, how much indirect spending universities can get.

And so those, potential changes definitely could have a big impact on University of Vermont down, you know, Dartmouth, Dartmouth-Hitchcock Medical Center.

Yeah.

They're potentially, you know, millions of dollars that these, universities could, could lose.

And and it would definitely limit the amount of, of science that happens and, impact, you know, there's there's hundreds of people jobs are funded through those that federal money.

Not not entirely, but it helps employ a lot of people in the region.

So, yeah, if that funding were to go away, or parts of it were to be sort of had these added constraints, it would, it would impact the University of Vermont down at Dartmouth.

A lot of these.

Yeah.

Research institutions.

It's amazing how much waiting people are doing it with the anticipation.

Just the uncertainty, I guess, is really is really starting to to come home here.

And I know that there are, health care costs could be affected at UVM too, by this.

There could be possible budget cuts from all this.

So, UVM has positioned itself as a research university, in part, and hired Curt Dombroski, who's the vice president of research, in order to build up its research funding.

He has worked to get the National Science Foundation on board with some really big grants and do a partnership with GlobalFoundries.

And their research funding has gone from 220 million to 260, or I think 70 million over the last few years, because he's been trying to supplement, tuition because, you know, demographics are resulting in tuition not being as strong as it could be anymore.

And they've got to look for other ways to keep a fairly big university in a state with a diminishing number of high school graduates.

So, the impact of, a hit to grant funding at UVM is would it's hundreds of millions of dollars now for UVM, I will say the R-1 designation.

And while it is, it's a great thing that they got it and they've been working toward it.

Vermont is the last state to have a university with Iowa and all the other New England states.

Not a lot of state in the country, but the other New England states all have a university with an R-1 designation.

So it's more that Vermont is catching up with some of its peers, like three of the UMass schools have it.

But you're right.

The budget UVM is having budget problems.

In fact, they did come out.

Their vice president of finance did come out and say that he had asked the heads of their administrative units and their academic units to just look around for savings because they might be asked to make some cuts this spring when they see what their revenues are going to be for next year.

And the problem, as it is with so many of the other places that we work with and see and even work for, is health insurance costs, they went up 17% last year.

And Richard Kay, the vice president of finance, told me that this year he thinks they're going to go up 19%.

It's a huge amount.

It's too much for them to absorb without doing cuts that that could be very significant.

All right.

We have to talk about what Vermont is doing to prevent the spread of bird flu.

Lexi, crop, you have been talking with, Health Commissioner doctor Mark Levine about this.

I know you've been digging into a lot of this research.

First, scare the heck out of me about bird flu, and then tell me why I shouldn't be all that scared, actually.

Okay, I'm going to reverse that.

Okay?

Okay.

First, the risk to the general population or bird flu is low.

This is not a virus that has we have any evidence that spreads between people.

So it's it's not something that should be keeping you up at night.

I think at this point, you know, we've heard about this bird flu for several years now.

It's really devastating among wild birds, among, poultry.

A lot of, you know, marine mammals, cats, all, all sorts of, different species have been impacted by this.

I think about a year ago, this virus showed up in cattle in, in Texas.

And now it's been detected in, in cattle all over the country and dairy farms.

And there's this we've seen, the virus move from, from dairy animals to, to workers, to people.

So, so again, not that human to human transmission, but there is, the cow to person transmission and, the state is being pretty proactive about trying to test and, and get ahead of this thing just to, to know what's happening.

Yeah.

That's good.

Now the scary part.

Oh okay.

So well and I don't I'm not trying to alarm people but so the the testing programs that are happening they're, they're testing milk from dairy farms and they're also testing hospitalized flu patients to say, you know, what type of virus do you have?

Is it just there, you know, the human flu or is there any, avian flu floating around in there?

And I guess the, the reason for that is Doctor Levine, was speaking with lawmakers earlier this week and sort of paint the scenario of of what, what they're really concerned about.

What he's really concerned about is someone who has the flu, the, you know, human flu.

Getting picking up avian flu, H5 and one and those two viruses mutating and exchanging genetic information such that the avian flu would then pick up a mutation where it could more easily transmit between people.

Right now, it doesn't really like the cells that line our, our airways, epithelial cells.

But it could, you know, the concern is that it would mutate, pick up and pick up a mutation where it could then spread between people.

But that that has not happened, and it may never happen.

But it's definitely possible.

And and that, that's definitely that's that is scary.

And we've seen animals, pets get sick from the bird flu.

Several cats across the country have died.

You know, there have been, now almost 70 people in the US who've, had bird flu, one one, one death from that.

Yeah, yeah.

Not sure I think.

Right.

I think Louisiana is okay.

Okay.

Yeah.

But, it's so it's a it's a concern.

It's a potential that it is not it is not hopefully scary.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

I, I appreciate you couching that in those terms because we don't want to alarm people.

But yeah, again you know, the good news here I think, is that the state is being proactive in going to farms and talking to farmers and getting out in front of this as much as they can.

Yeah, I think when, you know, the, the health department ran a number of vaccine clinics at farms and Ground 51 in the fall.

And something that Doctor Levine was saying is like, you know, a really good way to prevent this is to have fewer people being sick with the flu.

And we have a lot of flu cases right now.

And our vaccination rates are not that great.

In the last three years, there was an average of, I think 40% of, Vermonters had a flu vaccine this year.

It's lower.

It's closer to 34%.

So Doctor Levine was saying, you know, when one thing we could really do is increase that, that vaccination rate, to prevent, you know, fewer people from having the flu.

And, and, you know, that may not happen.

Yeah.

Calvin Cutler, I know it's been a oddly sleepy at the statehouse a little bit.

It's it's it's a bit strange this time of year, but, you have been reporting on the governor's new, public safety proposal and a couple of components there, dealing with drug treatment incentives and mental health services for prisoners.

What can you tell us?

Yeah.

It's interesting.

You know, we talk about public health from, like, the virus and the bird flu lens.

There's sort of a public health element to public safety and accountability.

A lot of the talk from the governor's plan and discussion has been around bail reform and raise the age and sort of accountability measures.

But, you know, earlier this week, Governor Scott and his team sort of outlined a few of their priorities, which deal with, mental health and drug abuse and addiction, which also really have a huge role in the public safety challenges.

And there's two programs that they're looking to sort of, jump start, one of them being, I believe it was a pilot program in Chittenden County from States Attorney Sarah George was working on this a few years ago, which is working with individuals who, are using stimulants like cocaine and methamphetamines.

And if they can stay clean, and get into recovery, they will be cash and financial incentives.

Research has actually shown that, that's, it's a treatment model that is showing some promise.

So the state is is looking to expand that.

And also the other one, is, is sort of a, expanding what's known as a protective status.

So for people that are publicly intoxicated, which is not illegal, but people that are belligerent and could be harmed themselves or to others, the state would like to sort of bring back or to expand the protective status where people would be able to, authorities would be able to take this person.

I don't see into custody because it's not like they're being arrested.

They're not being charged, but they would be brought to correctional facilities where they'd be able to detox.

And while they're at the correctional facility, there would be mental health experts there that could try to connect them with other resources.

So they're trying to be more strategic with with how some of these state dollars are spent.

And so they'd be bringing in extra staff to the correctional center.

So they weren't just being put in jail.

Exactly.

Yeah.

There would be specialists in the facilities.

And, you know, the idea is that these people would be trained in de-escalation, mental health, etc.. Because as the governor and, you know, Commissioner Jen Morrison have pointed out, I mean, this is a very relatively small population of individuals that we're talking about.

It's a lot of them, the same repeat offenders, you know, committing, crimes, sometimes nonviolent acts, sometimes violent, and it's very much on police's radar.

So trying to connect these people with those, those resources in a state where, you know, our laws around involuntary commitment, involuntary medication, those are very we have some of the strictest laws around that.

I think this is these are two more strategies to try to connect people with, with treatment and mental health.

I appreciate that update very much.

Want to mention quickly that, the Supreme Court, state Supreme Court has dismissed a lawsuit brought by senators over the education secretary, the appointment of Zoe Saunders.

This was, you know, this was a real sticking point for Democrats, before the elections happen.

Now, at the state Supreme Court saying, basically, this is a moot point, right?

Yeah.

It's interesting.

There's a lot that went into this.

And of course, there is the discussion around what is the appointment of Zoe Saunders mean for public education?

That was sort of the concern.

But also it really kind of boiled down to a discussion or a debate about about the separation of, you know, constitutional powers and the governor can appoint, but the Senate has to, confirm, those, those appointments.

So I think it is significant that the Supreme Court basically just said, we are not going to touch this one.

We're going to let let this, let this lie.

So, it certainly does close, a chapter in, in that regard with the Zoe Saunders debate.

I know she technically still does need to be confirmed this session by, by Senate lawmakers.

Which will happen likely near the end and I think.

But Senator Filbert Ruth had said that given the, the challenges we're seeing in terms of education funding, reform and all that's on state lawmakers plate this year, that's pretty low on the priority list.

I want to mention something, Lexi, that you had been reporting on, I believe, for a brave little state about it.

It's fascinating how Vermont got so many town forests.

You know, without giving away the whole episode, give us a sort of a thumbnail so that people can know what to look for as they go.

Find that story.

Yeah, well, we've been talking a lot about our democracy, and I think, something that's sort of inspiring about town for us is that it's like democracy and in the woods, you know, and their local level.

So, these are lands owned by towns or other forms of public government.

You know, could be school district, could be a fire district.

You know, most towns have them, many have more than one.

You've probably seen one or been in one and not even thought about it.

But, these lands have, have had so many different uses.

Like in the 80s, a bunch of town forest were used when there was an energy crisis, for, for firewood, you know, county foresters would go out and, mark the record lots and people would come with their wheelbarrows and their size and, you know, get firewood from there.

There's a lot of town forests that have mountain biking trails, hiking trails or, you know, area set aside for, for wildlife and habitat conservation.

So, they're really, really cool.

Look at ways different towns want to relate to the land.

You know, there's there's flood mitigation projects and some of them, all all different uses and, and they all have pretty interesting histories that were, surprising and, at times delightful.

And I also learned a lot about Vermont, like the history of Vermont.

So that's my tease.

Fantastic.

Yeah.

So show some love for Brave Little State and Old Forest episode.

Check that out.

Before we go, I have to mention, if they get in, perhaps raise a, martini of bathtub gin.

I did that one for you, Calvin.

I'm talking about fish.

Vermont's own ban.

Born here at the University of Maine in the early 80s.

Nominated for the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.

We think they're going to get in, you know, I think so.

There's a lot of energy around it.

I mean, it's a huge deal a long time coming.

I mean, some would say that they're I mean, they've already had an impact on this institution.

New year's Eve 1994, fish flew upon or among the the crowd in a hot dog, which is the first thing that you see when you walk into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.

So big deal for a big Vermont band.

I certainly hope they get in.

You've seen them a bunch of times, I'm guessing.

Right?

12, 12 times.

Okay.

I saw them a couple of times.

There are fantastic band board right here in Vermont, so we're going to hope they get into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.

That's all the time we have for today.

Thank you to our panel Anne Wallace Allen from Seven Days, Calvin Cutler from WCAX.

And Lexi Krupp from Vermont Public.

Thanks everyone so much for being here.

I'm Mitch Wertlieb, but I hope you'll join us again next week for Vermont this week.