This.

In what's being described as one of the largest immigration enforcement actions in Vermont's recent history.

U.S. Customs and Border Protection agents arrested and detained eight workers at a Berkshire dairy farm this week.

We're concerned for our people, and I say our people.

I mean all of them.

They are part of their community, part of their families.

Their kids are in school and they're essential.

So that is the part of it, that is, you know, disturbing for a lot of us.

Plus, Vermont Senator Peter Welch meets with Badawi in prison as advocates rally to show their support.

And lawmakers hammer out the details of a new housing proposal aimed at spurring development in small towns.

All that and more ahead on Vermont this week.

From the Vermont public studio in Winooski.

This is Vermont this Week, made possible in part by the Lintilhac Foundation and Milne Travel.

Here's moderator Mitch Wertlieb.

Thanks for joining us on Vermont this Week.

I'm Mitch Wertlieb.

It's Friday, April 25th and joining us on the panel this week, Calvin Cutler from WCAX Carly Berlin from Vermont Public and VtDigger and Colin Flanders from Seven Days.

Thank you all so much for being here.

And as usual, there is no shortage of news to talk about.

As I mentioned, at the top eight migrant farm workers were arrested at the largest dairy farm in Vermont, Berkshire dairy.

Let's hear first from, governor.

Governor Scott.

And we'll then back of Migrant Justice about what happened.

While I believe those who are here illegally and are committing serious crimes should be detained.

I don't believe we should be targeting those who are here peacefully because our our neighbors and friends have kids in our schools, shop our businesses, and play an important role in our economy and workforce.

People have set down roots in Vermont.

They've made this state their home.

They know how important their, community is to the state of Vermont and how much they can contribute.

And they aren't willing to go back into the shadows or to go backwards.

Workers have fought hard to win respect for their human rights, and they aren't going anywhere.

Okay, Colin Flanders, let's start off with, What?

Just what happened here.

How did this, this mass arrest happen?

And and where is it leading?

Yeah.

So according to Border patrol, what happened here was they got a tip, on Monday that there were two men walking through the woods with backpacks.

They crossed through a cornfield and then ended up on private farmland.

So the Border Patrol agents responded, apprehended one of the individuals, the other ran off.

And in the midst of that border patrol says that it found other people whose legal status was in question here.

Rounded them up.

And that's these eight farm workers who were arrested.

The big question immediately after this was, was this and was this a raid?

Was this a targeted raid on a dairy farm, which would have, wide ranging ramifications in a state whose dairy industry relies heavily on such such a workforce?

The way the Border Patrol is describing this is a little different.

This is sort of fitting into the playbook that we're seeing out of the Trump administration of trying to gin up the immigration arrest numbers, whereas they are just, called collateral arrests where they're essentially just going into some place under the guise of a warrant or a tip and then looking around and seeing, who do we find?

And so I think the big question is, is this a sign of more to come?

Are we going to see this on other dairy farms, or is this maybe a one off?

And unfortunately, this farm and the workers kind of got unlucky in this case.

Kevin, this is a very big farm, as I said, the largest dairy farm in Vermont.

What are the owners been saying about all this?

Yeah.

So this is, Pleasant Valley Farm.

It's a huge from one of the biggest in the state in Berkshire.

They've got over 15,000 heads of cattle.

The, the family, put out a statement after these arrests happened, basically saying that these eight individuals that were on their farm, more or less were hired using, within the context of state and federal employment legal guidelines, which we followed up with the governor and Agriculture Secretary, Anson Tebbit's, and they said they couldn't comment or weren't quite sure what they meant by that.

So it is still unclear.

But Border Patrol is saying that these eight individuals are undocumented and here illegally.

And, you know, to Collin's point, to just a little earlier talking about how heavily reliant, you know, the state is on on migrant farm workers, you know, the reason that dairy farms have to turn to undocumented or illegal workers is because there is no visa that supports people here year round.

It's not like our people that come to pick apples or come work ski lifts or other other jobs, you know, seasonal jobs.

Cows need to be milked 24 over seven.

And because of that, we've had to turn to this type of labor.

Plus, the starting wages are around $16 or so, Governor Scott says.

And it's just been really tough to get people to actually work, Vermonters to work and sign up for these jobs.

So the question is also, you know, Colin alluded to, is does this represent a broader pattern?

Does this represent a policy shift from the Trump administration, who originally said, we're going to be going after violent criminals here illegally with a criminal record?

We don't know all of the details of of these individuals.

But but certainly this is something that state leaders are keeping an eye on.

Yeah.

You heard Governor Scott make that distinction, too.

You know, where he believes that if people are, you know, engaging in criminal acts and they're not here illegally, of course he thinks they should go, but that does.

You know, we don't know what the situation is here with these folks.

But what I'm wondering is, you know, as we said, this is a large dairy farm.

Are there owners of much smaller dairy farms who also, rely on some of these workers who are looking and say, okay, you know, we can't afford to lose eight people on our farm.

There's no way we can stay, survive.

Yeah.

I mean, in talking with lawmakers, talking with lobbyists, people that really are very plugged into, many, dairy farms, there is a real sense of fear, among farms, both large and small.

You know, historically, I think William Beck from, from a migrant justice there, you know, said living in the shadows, right.

Historically, Vermont farms, we rely on, on this workforce, and we've sort of turned a blind eye to them and sort of let it fly under the radar.

But if there is, more enforcement, if there is, you know, no matter what size, farm, large or small, that could have a huge impact on, on our state's economy.

And Colin, as you were saying, this was not a raid in the sense that we've seen some other things and we're going to get into that.

But, again, you know, this is the largest, arrest in recent memory, right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think the last time that there was a work worksite enforcement action of this size was back in 2018 on a construction site.

I think that, yeah, the big outstanding question remains, is this going to happen again?

And I will say it does seem if this is a sort of shift in the Trump administration's policy, it's a pretty dramatic shift where, Trump's borders are.

Tom Homan, who has actually ties to the North Country, has been saying for months now that they are not going to be targeting dairy farms.

And just last month, there was another one of these collateral type arrests on a dairy farm in the North Country, where he came out immediately and said this was not a raid.

We were going after somebody on the farm.

And these people just so happen to be around.

I think the question is, yeah, is this going to become more common, and if so, what are farms going to do about it?

Yeah, already a lot of pressures on Vermont farmers, dealing with things like tariffs and so much more.

This certainly isn't going to make anything any easier in that sense.

Carley brillant, I want to turn to you now.

Vermont lawmakers have been considering a housing discrimination bill, and we've been hearing about that.

It's sort of been in flux.

Where do things stand now?

Yeah.

So this bill looks at expanding housing access for immigrants who don't have legal status.

You know, to it would do this in two ways.

It would add citizenship and immigration status to Vermont's fair housing laws.

So basically saying, it would prohibit discrimination on those grounds when someone's looking to, to rent or buy a home here.

And it would also prohibit landlords for asking for a social Security number when someone is when, you know, putting out an apartment for rent, you know what of the to tie this to the dairy farm conversation.

You know, one individual who's affiliated with Migrant Justice came and testified in support of this bill and said, you know, used to work on a dairy farm where housing was provided when he left and tried to find somewhere else to live, every landlord would ask, okay, what's your Social Security number?

So I can run a credit and background check.

And so it took him years to be able to find an apartment, and ultimately he had to have a coworker, you know, act as a guarantor on his lease in order to just find somewhere to live.

So what this bill is seeking to do is to, you know, expand that that access.

And where do things stand with it?

Is there a lot of support for it?

What are the chances?

Yeah, I mean, this bill is is in a house in the House Housing Committee right now.

They're looking at possible changes to it.

They've gotten some pushback on the the Social Security number piece, in particular from the landlord association saying, you know, we really need this information to be able to properly that tenant.

So lawmakers right now are tinkering with some changes and possible amendments.

But it is still a live bill.

You know, I will say I'm glad you brought up this bill and everything that's happening at the state House, too.

I know last week we focused a lot on pieces of legislation that that the Judiciary Committee is working on.

Also, discussions about the, state of Vermont, our corrections and our contract with Ice.

You know, at this point in the legislative session, the the marching orders at the beginning were, you know, property taxes, education, housing.

But really, if you sit down in committees and you can feel it and you can see it in the hallways, there is a real response.

And people are talking about, what should Vermont's response to actions from, from the federal government might be, not just in terms of, you know, the immigration, you know, conversation, but also, you know, potential cuts from those from, you know, whatever Medicaid package comes out of the federal government.

So just to broaden out a little bit, it's been really fascinating to see the priorities of state lawmakers shift to this.

At this point in the session.

Well, to that point, Calvin, you know, another story where people are starting to pay a lot of attention coming out and, you know, showing it, just showing their displeasure with things.

And this is the case of an individual here.

We talk about these eight migrants who were arrested.

We don't really know their names or details yet, but we do know about most of Madeley, who was arrested, when he was going to fill out some naturalization papers.

You know, Colin, I know you've covered this as well.

And then, you know, his his cause has really been rallied around, got, Senator Peter Welch met with Badawi recently in prison to show his support.

You can see we have, on the screen here for those who are watching.

What?

Peter Welch tweeted about that and, you know, meeting with him and letting him know how things are.

Folks have come out, this week, in support, you know, rallying for his freedom.

They say he was wrongly arrested.

And we heard also from, most of his lawyer, Cyrus Mehta, who was reading, something that that he had tweeted.

And let's let's hear what she had to say.

And these are his words.

I am in prison, but I'm not imprisoned.

A system of democracy guarantees freedom of speech.

Keep the hope alive.

I will see you under the sun.

Powerful words.

My mistake, by the way, that, his the male lawyer, Cyrus Mehta, for most of Madeley.

Let's start with you, Colin.

I mean, what is what is happening here?

Is this a situation where this person doesn't know what the next move is?

Whether they're going to be able to stay where they are.

And, you know, what are people saying about his status now?

Yeah.

So the big question in his case, like many others, going on right now, is whether he is going to be detained while his immigration case plays out.

Right now, he's challenging his arrest on constitutional grounds that the only reason he was targeted is because of his protected speech.

And so far, the government has provided absolutely no evidence to suggest that that otherwise.

So on Wednesday, there was a court hearing.

There was another large protest outside of the Burlington courthouse.

There are a lot of eyes on this case.

I got there at 815.

The court hearing didn't start till nine, and I barely got into the courtroom.

I was in an overflow room and they cut it off right after me.

And there's a lot of people paying attention to this case, not only because of his, his particular case, but because this has wide ranging ramifications across the country.

And his attorney made that point that there are a million international students across the US who are right now watching and wondering whether they are going to be detained and potentially deported because they are speaking out.

And it has had a chilling effect across college campuses.

So right now, the question, we're going to have another hearing next Wednesday, and the judge may decide whether or not to release, and how he while his case plays out.

If he doesn't, I mean, he could be in prison for months, months while his case plays out.

And Kelvin.

Yes, in prison, but perhaps luckily, not somewhere else.

Yeah, he was almost, I mean, almost on a plane.

Tell us what happened.

Yeah.

I mean, basically the as the reporting goes.

So he was detained in Colchester.

They brought him to the airport, evidently in court.

They said he wasn't feeling well.

He went to the bathroom.

They missed the flight.

And while they were waiting for a new flight to come in from Burlington International, then that's when the order from the judge came down saying, keep him here in Vermont.

And it is a little interesting, too, as we were just talking about the, Vermont's contract with Ice and correctional facilities, there's a push at the state House to not work with Ice and hold, federal detainees here.

He's also here in Vermont, closer to his lawyers, closer to his home community in the upper Valley.

So it is kind of an interesting, dichotomy there.

And it was Louisiana where he was going to be taken to before missing that flight.

Right?

Yeah.

Okay.

Well, this is to another case where there was a woman who was and this is made national international news.

She was taken off the streets of Massachusetts, into a van, taken to Vermont, then to Louisiana.

You know, and we're talking about, I'm sorry that it were Mesa Oster.

Right.

So what is the latest with her situation calling like she was been ordered back to Vermont.

Is she going to come back to Vermont?

Yeah.

All indications at this point are that.

Are showing that she is going to come back to Vermont.

So late Friday last week, a federal judge ruled that she needs to be brought back up to Vermont while her case plays out here.

And this is, again, her case challenging her arrest on constitutional grounds.

I mean, what we're seeing here is a very clear, clear playbook from the Trump administration where they were rounding people up and trying to ship them down to Louisiana as quickly as possible because they are, according to the attorneys, who are representing these people, they're essentially venue shopping.

They're looking for a court, an appeals court that will be sympathetic to their case.

There was a legal victory for, for Mason's team to bring her back up to Vermont, where her case is now going to be heard.

There's a bail hearing on May 9th, and they are making the same determined action.

Should she be imprisoned while her immigration plays out.

And her attorneys say absolutely not, that she does not pose a flight risk, that she does not pose a threat, that the only evidence the government has shown to date is that she wrote an op ed, in a campus newspaper.

And so these are these cases are just strikingly similar, and we're seeing them across the country now.

And it's a very clear playbook, from the Trump administration to crack down on what, many people see as constitutionally protected speech.

I mean, this is this is what's chilling here, because if you look at, certain media outlets will describe this case and say, well, she's a supporter of Hamas, talking about foster care.

There is nothing in the op ed that that I've read, that that has any actual support for Hamas.

She was being critical of, Israel in the war, in against, Hamas.

But to make that leap and then again, what is motion Badawi?

What is he being accused of?

Let's remind people again, why was he detained to begin with?

So he has been detained.

The secretary of state, Marco Rubio, has, essentially said that a lot of these visas are being canceled because these students are speaking and acting in a way that could jeopardize U.S. foreign policy.

I think there are a lot of people who view that as a stretch.

I mean, most in there's been reporting on The New York Times.

He was very active on Columbia University pro-Palestine movement up until about 2024, but he had stepped away from those activities in the lead up to the the high profile encampments that we saw sweep across the, the US.

And so I think there is a lot of concern about what exactly have these students done.

And it's not just them.

I mean, I think we should keep in mind there are more than 100 or 1500 student visas that have been canceled in the last few weeks across more than 200 college campuses, and in some cases, the students are only finding out after their universities are refreshing this federal database that shows the status of their visa.

And they have no idea why their visa has been canceled.

Some, by all accounts, have not even participated in protests.

And so I think it is the randomness.

It is it is which is really contributing to this feeling that, if you're here on a visa, your status could be in jeopardy at any moment.

And I think that's a really scary place to be.

Chaotic nature of it.

And of course, we're going to be talking about this, I am sure, in the weeks to come, this is an issue not going away with these cases and others that could come up.

I want to turn now to, housing because this is something we talk about a lot, Carlos, you know, and we're so glad to have you here because you cover this especially there's a proposal to spur development in small towns in Vermont.

I think that would be welcome.

What what are folks saying about this?

Yeah.

So this would create a new program, the Community and Housing Infrastructure program, or Chip, basically a smaller version of the Tiff program that folks might be familiar with, tax increment financing.

That concept lets municipalities borrow money to build public infrastructure, water, sewer systems, roads and an area where they want to see growth with the expectation that that will then bring new private development.

Then the tax revenue from the development pays off.

The debt for the infrastructure idea with Chip is, you know, only bigger municipalities have been able to take advantage of TIF.

Sure.

So why don't we have a program where it says, okay, you want to build this one apartment building?

For example, one property, use that same tax increment financing concept there.

So that's that's the aim.

Just call it chip instead of Tiff.

Let's do something because it seems like at this point it's like we just need the housing.

We need more of it in any way we can get it.

That's part of what's behind this.

Yeah, absolutely.

I mean, the idea here is let's allow smaller towns to grow their their grid lists and have another tool at their disposal to be able to fund the just basic infrastructure that's needed to, to be able to build new housing.

Yeah.

I mean, when I talk with people at the state House, they're saying this is one of the most important pieces of the housing puzzle this year.

I mean, a couple of years ago, we did local zoning to make it more permissive, or inclusive.

That is, last year we started a process to reevaluate act 250 jurisdiction.

And there's sort of this mapping process that's happening, very complicated, but this is sort of the next piece.

And especially helping developers, both public and private, build out infrastructure, water, sewer, electric, etc.. And, you know, that really, you know, they say will help bring down the cost to try to make some of these projects pencil out.

Because when you talk about the pressures on building housing, housing, you know, labor lending, you know, lumber for materials, cost of materials, you know, inflation, tariffs, you know, there's a lot of things we can't control.

But they say this is one of the things we can control.

And so there is definitely some momentum for it.

We'll see how the ways and Means Committee and sort of, how sort of the committees of jurisdiction feel about it.

And of course, anytime we talk about housing, you know, we have to bring up the subject of homelessness because these go hand in hand.

Unfortunately, clearly, there is a plan to overhaul the state's response to homelessness.

What's behind that plan?

Yeah, this is a really big overhaul that's contemplated here.

So basically this bill H 91, it would dissolve the statewide motel voucher program as it currently exists.

Not this coming fiscal year that starts this summer, but the next one, and basically give the funding and decision making power over the state's homelessness response over to these five regional anti-poverty nonprofit organizations.

So that's, you know, Champlain Valley Office of Economic Opportunity.

This area caps it on and on and on.

This is this is a huge shift, right?

Because right now the state is really the central actor in how Vermont responds to homelessness.

Obviously, they run the motel program, but also they give out the grants to local shelters to, you know, be built or to run their operations.

What this bill contemplates is say no, let's actually have a lot of that decision making happen at the regional level.

So it's fair to say Governor Scott's a fan of this because I know he's not a fan of the motel voucher program.

Right.

So in in concept.

So what the administration has said is they they like the idea of this shift of having this more regional, local approach.

You know, obviously there are concerns about spending levels.

And there, you know, if anything, interested in speeding up the implementation of this a little bit sooner while the groups that would be carrying this out are saying, actually, we need a little bit more time, we're on board, but give us give us another year or two to really hammer out some of these details.

And what's the status of where all this is, you know, what are we looking at for a timeline here?

Yeah, yeah.

I mean, this bill has passed the House and now is sitting in a Senate committee.

They're taking lots of testimony, looking at, you know, possible, possible tweaks here.

But it seems to have momentum.

It's gotten a lot of attention.

And I should say, too, that there it's also gotten a lot of criticism.

There's a concern that, you know, this basically amounts to the state walking away from its responsibility for responding to homelessness in the state.

There is, you know, the state, as the bill currently envisions, would play an oversight function here.

But some critics are saying, you know, that's that's maybe not quite enough.

The state is the one that can kind of see the whole the whole picture.

And even some local shelter providers have said, you know, this really complicates things and destabilizes our system right at the moment when we might be losing a lot of federal funding.

So concerns too.

Again, the unknowns are just unbelievable here.

Which brings us to health care.

Everybody's other favorite topic.

Nothing ever goes wrong there.

You know, I'm not I'm not trying to make light of this.

We have a serious actual problem here.

In a joint meeting of the Senate and House health care committees this week, the Green Mountain Care Board said $200 million in health care system savings is needed in order to avoid a fourth consecutive year of double digit increases.

This is on Blue Cross Blue Shield insurance premiums, BCBS being the largest health insurer in the state.

So, Calvin, you know, $200 billion, where is that going to come from?

How what's the time frame for making those savings?

Is it even possible?

Yeah.

They said within the next four months before the next fiscal year, $200 million, that's going to be a really heavy lift.

I don't think anybody is saying that that's actually achievable, but it just really does go to show just how deep of a hole we're in and how large the the both affordability crisis is for Vermonters, but also the hospital budget sustainability crisis is as well.

There's, several things that are going on at once.

You know, they mentioned we need to save this money, there to prevent these potentially huge increases which will fall on Vermonters and on small businesses.

And when that happens, you might have, people either cut back their benefits or, you know, be, cost burdened.

So that's the affordability side on the hospital side.

You know, during that hearing, there were also CEOs from, from Gifford, from North Country, from a few others that are doing some of this sustainability work to try to bring down their expenses and to try to make their, their budgets pencil out.

Their big message to state lawmakers was, we're working on it.

We see it.

We hear we understand the crisis that we're in.

But, you know, it's you can't trim, you know, $10 million overnight at some of these small rural hospitals.

And, you know, the, Jessica Holmes with the Green Mountain Care Board told me that basically, we're now in the spot where there is a broad sort of recognition that, you know, 14 full service hospitals across the state of Vermont in a, a state with a declining and aging population using more frequent and more expensive care.

That's a really, really tough, tough, prospect to have, you know, play out.

So we'll see where we go from here.

But, yeah, buckle up, because it's going to be another probably tough year for insurance rates.

Yeah.

And if you're wondering about those insurance rates and saying, you know, telling BCBS, well sorry, we're not accepting that they're too big to fail.

I mean, it's a third of Vermonters.

They're insuring their.

So there's no easy way out of this.

I do want to quickly ask, all of you, when when is sticker season because I've gotten different opinions about this.

My feeling is once April and Styx season is over.

Calvin, what do you think?

You know, I think it's sometime, sometime between late February, early April or mid-April, you know, until really the leaves come out sort of, you know, there are no mud seasons in there as well.

Carly.

So I thought sticker season was in the fall after the leaves all fall down, but before the snow.

So I might be totally wrong.

I'm pretty new there for an opinion colony.

Search it and okay, we'll get back to us and we'll talk about it, perhaps in the future.

So that's all the time we have for today.

Thank you so much to our panel, Calvin Cutler from WCAX, Carly Berlin from Vermont Public VtDigger and Colin Flanders from Seven Days.

I'm Mitch Wertlieb, thank you so much for listening and for watching this week.

Hope you join us again next week for Vermont this Week.